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Normal Topic Simon Williams discovery against John Shaw's Nc6? (Read 9389 times)
Keano
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Re: Simon Williams discovery against John Shaw's Nc6?
Reply #9 - 08/13/17 at 20:52:11
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Same ol story. This would probably even be in Bilguiers handbook.
  
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Re: Simon Williams discovery against John Shaw's Nc6?
Reply #8 - 07/02/17 at 09:15:14
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MNb wrote on 06/30/17 at 02:12:34:
Same answer. 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.Nf3 g5 5.O-O Bg7 6.c3 d6 results in a position known since the match Morphy-Anderssen, 1858.


Many defenders of the Kings Gambit will be familiar with the Hanstein setup as Black. The Fischer defence with the 3. .. d6 move order is also an attempt to reach such positions. 

What players with White really need to find is a way of playing Hanstein positions for a White advantage. Alternatively, as many do, they try to avoid them. 

For most of  his career, Simon has played 1.d4 with White and the French as Black against 1. e4, so he's rarely had to decide how to defend the Kings Gambit or how to play it as White. 

Taking the pawn on f4 and holding onto it is a key idea for Black as the pawn on f4 controls some useful squares in the centre and restricts the activity of the c1 Bishop. There's the Hanstein and similar variations using the h6, g5, f4, Bg7 structure and also the .. d5 based idea of defending it with pieces by playing .. Bd6 and possibly Ng8-e7-g6. 
  
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MNb
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Re: Simon Williams discovery against John Shaw's Nc6?
Reply #7 - 07/01/17 at 01:59:07
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HagenWatch1 wrote on 06/30/17 at 21:30:24:
But I'm really confused why Simon Williams doesn't mention the Hanstein Gambit by name either when he references his recommendation against the Nc6 move.

This is why I'm grateful you brought up the topic. I watched some videos by GM Williams on the London System and noticed he neglected Black's best defense. Apparently he does the same with this "discovery". So unfortunately I have to conclude that GM Williams is not reliable anymore; from now on I'll distrust everything coming from him until proven otherwise.
  
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Re: Simon Williams discovery against John Shaw's Nc6?
Reply #6 - 06/30/17 at 22:01:10
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Well iirc he deals with the Hanstein from the 3 Bc4 Nc6 4 Nf3 g5 etc. move order.
  
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HagenWatch1
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Re: Simon Williams discovery against John Shaw's Nc6?
Reply #5 - 06/30/17 at 21:30:24
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I'm surprised John Shaw doesn't mention the Hanstein Gambit in the King's Gambit book. Maybe he shows it but doesn't bother with the naming convention? But I'm really confused why Simon Williams doesn't mention the Hanstein Gambit by name either when he references his recommendation against the Nc6 move.
  
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MNb
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Re: Simon Williams discovery against John Shaw's Nc6?
Reply #4 - 06/30/17 at 02:12:34
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Same answer. 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.Nf3 g5 5.O-O Bg7 6.c3 d6 results in a position known since the match Morphy-Anderssen, 1858. White will have to play d2-d4 on the 7th or 8th move and it always will be a regular Hanstein Gambit. All these move orders have been systematically researched by FM Stefan Bücker in the 1980's.
  
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HagenWatch1
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Re: Simon Williams discovery against John Shaw's Nc6?
Reply #3 - 06/29/17 at 17:41:59
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MNb wrote on 06/29/17 at 16:30:22:
How do you mean new? Blumenfeld (from the famous gambit) played it in 1901. The issue is not 5...g4, the issue is 5...Bg7 with a regular Hanstein Gambit.
Btw 5...g4 6.Ne1 was played in an obscure 1954 game; most KGeers would rather consider 6.d4 or 6.d3 instead I guess. 6.Nc3 transposes to the Pierce Gambit.
This discovery doesn't solve anything.


I have to go back to the DVD because Simon Williams covers the. Bg7 line but I think his answer to this is c3. He says Nc3 isn't good enough and doesn't work but I'll double check on this and get back after giving it another look. 
  
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Re: Simon Williams discovery against John Shaw's Nc6?
Reply #2 - 06/29/17 at 16:30:39
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What's the idea after 5...Bg7 aiming to transpose to the Hanstein?
  
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MNb
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Re: Simon Williams discovery against John Shaw's Nc6?
Reply #1 - 06/29/17 at 16:30:22
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How do you mean new? Blumenfeld (from the famous gambit) played it in 1901. The issue is not 5...g4, the issue is 5...Bg7 with a regular Hanstein Gambit.
Btw 5...g4 6.Ne1 was played in an obscure 1954 game; most KGeers would rather consider 6.d4 or 6.d3 instead I guess. 6.Nc3 transposes to the Pierce Gambit.
This discovery doesn't solve anything.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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HagenWatch1
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Simon Williams discovery against John Shaw's Nc6?
06/29/17 at 12:09:38
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John Shaw's book on the King's Gambit loudly claimed the refutation of the Bc4 variation by trotting out the Nc6 line in a whole chapter on it. However after looking through the Vol 1 DVD of Simon Williams on the King's Gambit...he discusses a new way to counter the line with a surprising new move 5. 0-0!?.

The line goes 1 e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.Nf3 g5 and now Simon Williams gives his surprising move to counter the g5 move... 5.0-0!?. He explains the reply to Black's 5...g4 is the paradoxical move 6.Ne1!? John Shaw does NOT mention this line at all so I'm wondering what the verdict on this line is if any practical tests have been done using it and if John Shaw has said anything about this variation.
  
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