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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4 (Read 12337 times)
MNb
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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #23 - 09/02/17 at 20:30:54
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 08/24/17 at 11:07:14:
did you consider not to play e5 or c5 at all, in certain circumstances? There exist setups with c6 and Na6-c7, and your hint that you didn't like the passive Na6 could signal such a preference for more flexibility, delaying c7-c5 and e7-e5. Also, did you consider Bc8-g4?

I can remember and the answer is no. Last month I did but didn't find anything I liked (not that I tried hard and it will be a few weeks before I do).

Stefan Buecker wrote on 08/25/17 at 19:21:21:
In the old days when young Germans learned the game based on Kurt Richter books, traps like 4...Nb4 were common knowledge. Today we live in a different era. People who haven't read many chess books

Back in the 1980's I had a clubmate who consistently played the Kieler Variation. He was ridiculed, but had some success - nobody I knew had read any Kurt Richter book. So I bet that even folks who have read many chess books will be surprised.
  

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Re: Kiel Game: 4.c4 Nb4!?
Reply #22 - 08/25/17 at 19:21:21
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RdC wrote on 08/24/17 at 23:57:06:
At some levels the key point is that White should play a3, with or without flicking in Qa4 as well. If the opponent's rating is low enough to justify it, White might fall into the "trap" of trying to win a piece. Black still has to handle the resulting tactics though.

[...]

One thing I did discover by analysing with someone who played this regularly was that the natural 6. Nf3 is probably necessary as if 6. Be3 the punt of 6. .. e5 works well. The main point is that after 7. dxe5 Qxd1 8. Kxd1 Nc6 9. f4, the c5 square is available. It's an ending where you sacrifice a pawn, get the Queens off and have lots of activity.

Great point. The following game illustrates your observation.


In the old days when young Germans learned the game based on Kurt Richter books, traps like 4...Nb4 were common knowledge. Today we live in a different era. People who haven't read many chess books and were raised on a diet of ChessBase and Stockfish, can still be surprised by 4...Nb4. Working out the trap over the board requires time.

5.a3 also has the effect that White will rarely castle long. King on c1, checkmated by Nb3 and Bf5... a "knightmare". Sometimes White's desire not to weaken his position is so strong that he avoids a2-a3 completely and plays the risky 5.Nf3?!. Or perhaps this 2344 rated player had overlooked 5...Bf5.


Of course 11...0-0-0 (instead of 11...Nd4?) collects a sound extra pawn. White therefore should have played 9.Be3 =. There exists another solid way to counter White's setup: 6...e5 7.Nxe5 N4c6 =. But the most promising solution is the following:

1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4 5.Nf3? Bf5 6.Na3 e6 7.Be2 N8c6! Black exerts pressure on White's center. 8.0-0 Be7 9.Bd2 0-0 10.Bc3 Bf6 11.Qd2 Qe7 12.h3 Rfd8 13.Qe3 g5 14.Rfd1 Rd7 15.Rd2 Rad8.

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Black has an edge (-0.50). A reminder that a pawn center is only strong if it can move forward.
  
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Re: Kiel Game: 4.c4 Nb4!?
Reply #21 - 08/24/17 at 23:57:06
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 08/17/17 at 22:20:14:
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4 5.a3! N4a6 6.Nf3



At some levels the key point is that White should play a3, with or without flicking in Qa4 as well. If the opponent's rating is low enough to justify it, White might fall into the "trap" of trying to win a piece. Black still has to handle the resulting tactics though.

I did try it once in a 30 minute game. My opponent thought for 15 minutes if not 20 as to whether a player of supposedly 2000 or higher standard would really leave a piece en prise at move 5 or 6. He did eventually believe me, played a3 and got an excellent game. Time pressure did for him as he failed to accurately maintain control.

It would be nice if there was a route to a playable position after 5 a3. There are some traps and tricks, but can it really work at a 2000 plus level?

One thing I did discover by analysing with someone who played this regularly was that the natural 6. Nf3 is probably necessary as if 6. Be3 the punt of 6. .. e5 works well. The main point is that after 7. dxe5 Qxd1 8. Kxd1 Nc6 9. f4, the c5 square is available. It's an ending where you sacrifice a pawn, get the Queens off and have lots of activity.
  
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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #20 - 08/24/17 at 11:07:14
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MNb wrote on 08/24/17 at 02:54:16:
I can't help but be reminded of the GM saying "if one piece is bad your entire position is bad" - and in the last line Na6 remains bad.
Unfortunately next few weeks I haven't much time for serious analysis.

Mark, no serious analysis needed. That's my job, for the forthcoming book The Kiel Game. Play the Nieuweboer System and Pforzheim Gambit. Smiley

However, it would be interesting to know more about your general ideas. You wrote: "if White prevents ...e5 then play ...c5". Perhaps you can remember: did you consider not to play e5 or c5 at all, in certain circumstances? There exist setups with c6 and Na6-c7, and your hint that you didn't like the passive Na6 could signal such a preference for more flexibility, delaying c7-c5 and e7-e5. Also, did you consider Bc8-g4?

What I liked in the 1962 correspondence game: it would be a solution to the Bg5 problem. Black plays g6, Bg7 and 0-0, still keeping the knight on b8. When White prematurely plays Bg5, Black still has the antidote Nc6. - Also, the idea to exchange both bishops for White's knights seems logical and sound. However, knights vs bishops makes it more likely that Black wants to build a kind of fortress.
« Last Edit: 08/24/17 at 20:00:03 by Stefan Buecker »  
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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #19 - 08/24/17 at 02:54:16
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I can't help but be reminded of the GM saying "if one piece is bad your entire position is bad" - and in the last line Na6 remains bad.
Unfortunately next few weeks I haven't much time for serious analysis.
  

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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #18 - 08/23/17 at 22:57:07
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The move Nb8-d7 works perfectly against an early b2-b4, and very well against many other set-ups. However, in the main line we've encountered serious difficulties, illustrated in the last post. So I have decided to drop the "thematic move" for this case and look at the immediate 9...c5 10.d5 e5. The following correspondence game (source: Dr. Timothy Harding's MegaCorr3 CD) offers valuable insights.

  
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Kiel Game: 4.c4 Nb4!?
Reply #17 - 08/17/17 at 22:20:14
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My attempts to identify a possible main line for the "Kiel Game" have run into several dead ends. Here is what comes closest, in my opinion, to a playable interpretation of MNb's concept.

1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4 5.a3! N4a6 6.Nf3

The alternative 6.b4 looks good enough for Black.

6...g6 7.Nc3 Bg7 8.Be2 0-0 9.0-0

It seems unnecessary to play h2-h3, the pin Bc8-g4 doesn't fit into Black's general plan.

9...Nd7 10.Bg5!

Now I've accepted that this is White's strongest option. Provoking h7-h6 is useful against the c7-c5 plan, and even more so against e7-e5.

10...h6

If Black wants to lure White's d-pawn to d5, he can try the immediate 10...c5?! 11.d5 h6 12.Be3 Nc7 13.Qd2 Kh7 14.Rad1 e5. However, this pawn formation is a shaky affair: 15.g4!, and White has all the fun.

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11.Be3 e5

The alternative 11...c5 is more or less refuted by 12.Qe1!, for example 12...cxd4 13.Nxd4 followed by Rad1 and f4. The e1 square is perfect: the Queen doesn't hamper the development of other pieces, and can later attack Black's king. The Nd4 can hop to b5.

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12.b4!

12.dxe5 and 12.Qc2 are serious alternatives, but not as dangerous as the text move. Or 12.d5 f5. White has an edge, that's all, I don't think many would regard the opening as refuted by these lines. In particular if it's an opening with such a dubious reputation.

12...exd4 13.Bxd4 c5! 14.Bxg7 Kxg7 15.Qb3!

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As innocuous as this treatment appears, Black is now struggling badly for his survival. White's pieces dominate in the center, and the Na6 and Ra8 are painfully undeveloped. The only rescue seems to be a drastic measure to eliminate White's remaining pawns on the queenside.

15...Re8 16.Rad1 Nc7 17.Bd3 cxb4

The announced drastic measure. If 17...Re6 18.Be4 Qf8, White has 19.Bxb7! and the position is almost hopeless.

18.axb4 a5! 19.c5 axb4 20.Qxb4

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20...Na6

Black has alternatives, in each case sacrificing the exchange:
(a) 20...Kh7 21.Ne4 Ne5 22.Be2 Qe7 23.Nd6 Nc6 24.Qb6 Ra4!?.
(b) 20...Qf6 21.Ne4 Rxe4 22.Bxe4 Na6 23.Qa3 Ndxc5.

21.Bxa6 Rxa6 22.Ne4 Ree6 23.Rfe1 Qf8 24.Qc3+ Kg8 25.Nd4 Re5 26.h3 Kh7 27.Qc4 Nxc5 28.Nf6+ Rxf6 29.Rxe5 b6

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Once again, Black had to sacrifice the exchange to get rid of the last remaining white queenside pawn. The odds to hold the draw are not too bad. Yet obviously the resulting position isn't the outcome we've been dreaming of. 
  
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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #16 - 08/10/17 at 21:06:04
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The booklet has arrived - a nice addition to my collection. The author gives some little-known games, and even gets the name "von Zitzewitz" right. Pretty rare to find this correct spelling in a recent opening book... In the meantime I've found a helpful comment (Schach-Echo 1956, p. 307, probably by Alfred Brinckmann, Kiel) on the origin of the move 4...Nb4:

Quote:
Diese Variante ist in die Schachgeschichte unter dem Namen "Kieler Partie" eingegangen, weil Kieler Schachkreise unter Führung meines alten Lehrmeisters Johannes Metger sich näher mit ihr befaßt haben. Ihren dokumentarischen Niederschlag haben die Untersuchungen in der berühmten Partie Rhode - von Zitzewitz (1910) gefunden, [...]

This clears up the confusion from other sources that mention both 4...Nb6 (played by von Hennig) and 4...Nb4 without saying clearly which of the two got the name "Kieler Partie". I take Brinckmann's word for it that opening theoretician Johannes Metger was involved in studying 4...Nb4.


Johannes Metger (1851-1926)

Source: WikiCommons, a photo first published in Deutsche Schachzeitung 1921.
« Last Edit: 08/11/17 at 11:20:42 by Stefan Buecker »  
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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #15 - 08/05/17 at 17:18:48
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MNb wrote on 07/21/17 at 02:11:52:
2. The one exception is an obscure Swedish monograph from 1967 written by a certain Bo Jonsson.

I've just ordered a copy from a second-hand book shop. No need to re-invent the wheel if someone has already burnt the midnight oil.

One of the lines I was a little worried about was 9.c5 (in reply #6). If White can block the intended c7-c5 and prepare Be3, Qd2 and Bh6, the defense could be problematic. Instead of the artificial 9...Ndb8, now I prefer the more natural 9...Nf6 10.Bg5 0-0 11.Rc1 Nb8 12.Bc4 c6! 13.Qd2 b5 14.Bb3 a5, and Black achieves good counterplay with roughly equal chances.

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For example: 15.0-0 axb4 16.axb4 Na6 17.Ne5 Nxb4 18.Rb1 (18.Nxb5 Ba6) 18...Qa5 19.Qb2 Qa3 20.Bxf7+ Rxf7 21.Qxb4 Bf5 22.Bc1 Qxb4 23.Rxb4 Be6 24.Nxf7 Kxf7 25.Rd1 Bc4 26.Rb1 Nd5 27.Nxd5 Bxd5 =.

Other set-ups for White (without c4-c5) usually allow the standard plan c7-c5. More analysis required, of course.   
« Last Edit: 08/06/17 at 05:46:43 by Stefan Buecker »  
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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #14 - 08/01/17 at 03:06:32
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 08/01/17 at 02:45:15:
I am really puzzled by this ...Nb4-a6 variation.

You're not the only one - so am I. But that's the fun of it. Moreover, if we succeed in maintaining a playable position against White's best play we will have a game winner (like I had 20 years ago).
For now FM Bücker's line looks very good for White. When I've the time and energy I'll try to find something for Black (right now I don't like 14....Kh7 either iso 14...e5 as Black remains very cramped).
  

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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #13 - 08/01/17 at 02:45:15
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I am really puzzled by this ...Nb4-a6 variation. Is it even possible to contain both ...c7-c5 and ...e7-e5 ? Here is my attempt: 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Nf6 3. d4 Nxd5 4. c4 Nb4 5. a3 N4a6 6. b4 Nd7 7. Nf3 g6 8. Bf4 Bg7 9. Ra2!? (prophylaxis against ...c7-c5) O-O 10. Be2 c6 (Stockfish's plan is ...Nc7 and ...a7-a5) 11. Nbd2 Nc7 12. Nb3 and I hesitate to assess this position. Black is solid enough and white has no direct threats, but there is the space.
Edited:
On further consideration, black seems fine after 12...b6 13.O-O c5.


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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #12 - 07/31/17 at 22:15:57
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MNb wrote on 07/28/17 at 01:57:33:
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4 5.a3 N4a6 6.b4 Nd7 7.Nf3 g6 8.Nc3 Bg7 9.Bg5 O-O 10.Be2 h6 11.Be3 c5 12.O-O cxb4 13.axb4 Nxb4 14.Qd2 e5

Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/23/17 at 17:56:29:
[quote author=14173B590 link=1500593005/7#7 date=1500830628]in your line "b", White could have played 15.Bxh6! (instead of 15.d5) 15...exd4 16.Bxg7 Kxg7 17.Nxd4 with a significant advantage. So the provokation of h7-h6 can make sense. Adding the moves 0-0 and Be2 doesn't hurt much either. Altogether I like your line "b". Perhaps Black could even keep the extra pawn: 14...Kh7 (instead of 14...e5), e.g. 15.Rfb1 Na6 16.h4 Nc7 17.h5 g5. Or is this too risky?


How big exactly is that advantage after (15.Bxh6! exd4 16.Bxg7 Kxg7 17.Nxd4 Nc5 18.Rad1 or Rfd1 Qf6 !? Sure White's pieces are more active (especially Bc8 is a problem) but given that pawn on a7 things are not easy.

After 18.Rfd1 Qf6 the variation goes 19.Qb2 a5, and now White sacrifices the exchange - winning it back moments later:

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20.Rxa5! and then:
(a) 20...Rxa5 21.Qxb4 Qa6 (21...b6 22.Nd5) 22.h4 intending 23.h5! gives White a dangerous attack.
(b) 20...Nbd3 21.Rxd3! (21.Bxd3?! Nxd3 22.Rxd3 Rxa5! 23.Ne4 Re8 24.Nxf6?? Re1 mate) 21...Nxd3 22.Bxd3 Qxd4 (22...Rxa5? 23.Ne4 wins, e.g. 23...Ra2 24.Nf5+!) 23.Rxa8 Qxd3 24.Nd5+ f6 25.Ne3 and White has a sound extra pawn (+1.30 or so).
  
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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #11 - 07/28/17 at 01:57:33
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1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4 5.a3 N4a6 6.b4 Nd7 7.Nf3 g6 8.Nc3 Bg7 9.Bg5 O-O 10.Be2 h6 11.Be3 c5 12.O-O cxb4 13.axb4 Nxb4 14.Qd2 e5

Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/23/17 at 17:56:29:
[quote author=14173B590 link=1500593005/7#7 date=1500830628]in your line "b", White could have played 15.Bxh6! (instead of 15.d5) 15...exd4 16.Bxg7 Kxg7 17.Nxd4 with a significant advantage. So the provokation of h7-h6 can make sense. Adding the moves 0-0 and Be2 doesn't hurt much either. Altogether I like your line "b". Perhaps Black could even keep the extra pawn: 14...Kh7 (instead of 14...e5), e.g. 15.Rfb1 Na6 16.h4 Nc7 17.h5 g5. Or is this too risky?


How big exactly is that advantage after (15.Bxh6! exd4 16.Bxg7 Kxg7 17.Nxd4 Nc5 18.Rad1 or Rfd1 Qf6 !? Sure White's pieces are more active (especially Bc8 is a problem) but given that pawn on a7 things are not easy.
  

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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #10 - 07/25/17 at 22:09:23
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MNb wrote on 07/21/17 at 17:08:42:


14...Qg5 is worth looking at.


I guess you meant the wild position after 15.Qd1 0-0 (rather than the ending 15...Bb4+ 16.Kf1 Qxc1) 16.Nxb2 Qxg2 17.Rxc5 Qxh1 18.Kd2 Qxh2. Black can hope to win one or both of the remaining white pawns - sheer fun indeed!

There are still many loose ends (= critical lines) in the "Kieler". I'll be back in a few days. 
  
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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #9 - 07/24/17 at 18:18:51
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The finish in Wilterdink - MNb, corr NBC  I-521, is a tactical gem. And the game is relevant for theory:

1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4 5.Qa4+
!, says Bent Larsen in the first edition of ECO B (1975).
5...N8c6 6.a3
Another ! from Larsen.
6...Na6 7.Be3
The alternative 7.Nf3 also earns a +/- from Larsen, today it is at best a += (Blatny). Another possibility is 7.d5 Nc5 8.Qd1.
7...Bd7 8.Qc2
Here Larsen's variation ends with the assessment +/-. He is wrong.
8.Qd1 e5 9.d5 Nd4 (or 9...Ne7), and Black cannot be worse.
8...e5 9.dxe5

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9.d5 Nd4 10.Lxd4 exd4 11.b4 c5! =, Lahi - Smolensky, corr 1990.
9....Qe7
Maybe too ambitious. Black had a simpler option: 9...Bc5!, winning back the pawn without committing himself to castling long.
10.Nf3 0-0-0 11.Be2 Nxe5 12.h3?
More critical is 12.Nc3!. Black has several options, yet I haven't found a convincing continuation.
12...Nxf3+
Or 12...Qf6 13. 0-0 Bc5 14.Nc3 Bxe3 15.fxe3 Qh6, about equal.
13.Bxf3 Qf6 14.Nc3
Eventually White will regret that he hasn't castled short. Safer was 14.0-0 Nc5 15.Nc3 Bf5 16.Bg4, about =.
14...Bf5! 15.Qb3?

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White is running into difficulties. He should have played 15.Qa4 c6 and then:
(a) 16.Rd1 Qg6 17.Ne2 Bb4+!! 18.axb4 Bc2 19.Bg4+ Kb8 20.Nf4 Bxa4 21.Nxg6 hxg6 22.Ra1 Bb3 23.b5 f5 24.Be2 Nb4 25.0-0 Nc2 26.Rxa7 f4 27.Bf3 fxe3 28.Rxb7+ Kc8 29.fxe3 Nxe3 30.Bc6 Rhf8 31.Ra1 Rd1+ 32.Rxd1 Bxd1 33.Ra7 Kd8 34.c5 Nc4 35.b6 cxb6 36.Rd7+ Kc8 37.Rxd1 bxc5 +=.
(b) 16.0-0-0 Nc5 17.Qb4 Rd4!!

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18.Nd5 (18.Bxd4 Qxd4 19.Nb5 Qf4+ 20.Rd2 Be4! 21.Nxe4 Nxe4 22.Nxa7+ Kb8 23.Nc6+, drawn - eternal check) 18...Qe5 19.Bxd4 Qxd4 20. Rhe1 Bd6, and White has nothing better than 21.Ne7+ Kd7 22.Qb5+ c6 23.Bxc6+ Kd8 24.Re3 Bxe7 25.Be4 Bg5 26.Bxd3 Bxe3+ 27.Kb1 Nxd3 28.fxe3 Qe4  29.Qb3 Kc7 30.Qxd3 Re8, and Black holds the ending.
15...c6 16.Ne4 Qg6 17.Ng3
An error in a bad position.
17...Rd3 18.Qa4 Rxe3+! 19.fxe3 Qxg3+ 20.Ke2 Bd3+! 21.Kd1 Bc5 22.Bxc6 Rd8 23.Bd5 Qf2
White resigns. If 24.Re1 ...

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24...Nb4!! 25.axb4 Bxb4 26.Bxb7+ Kc7 27.Qc6+ Kb8, and it's over.
  
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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #8 - 07/23/17 at 17:56:29
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MNb wrote on 07/23/17 at 17:23:48:
I don't see why Black would be better off after 7.b5 Nab8 8.Nf3 a6  than after 7.Nf3 g6 8.b5 Nab8 etc.

I just thought that 7.b5?! equalizes, as does 7.Nf3 g6 8.b5?!. There are harder tasks to solve if White doesn't give the opponent such a target.

About your proposed main line: I must admit that I didn't have the move 9.Bg5 on my radar. Is the extra move h7-h6 a weakness after 9...h6 10.Be3 c5? It is possible, yet the difference to 9.Be3 c5 isn't obvious.

Edit: Now I notice that in your line "b", White could have played 15.Bxh6! (instead of 15.d5) 15...exd4 16.Bxg7 Kxg7 17.Nxd4 with a significant advantage. So the provokation of h7-h6 can make sense. Adding the moves 0-0 and Be2 doesn't hurt much either. Altogether I like your line "b". Perhaps Black could even keep the extra pawn: 14...Kh7 (instead of 14...e5), e.g. 15.Rfb1 Na6 16.h4 Nc7 17.h5 g5. Or is this too risky?
« Last Edit: 07/23/17 at 21:42:59 by Stefan Buecker »  
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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #7 - 07/23/17 at 17:23:48
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I don't see why Black would be better off after 7.b5 Nab8 8.Nf3 a6  than after 7.Nf3 g6 8.b5 Nab8 etc. (I think rather the opposite) but soit. In the main line White's play can be improved by 9.Bg5 (iso 9.Be2 and 9.c5) O-O (c5 10.Nd5!) 10.Be2 (10.Nd5 Re8) and now I propose three lines:

a) 10...c5 11.Nd5 still looks good for White.
b) 10...h6 11.Be3 c5 12.O-O cxb4 13.axb4 Nxb4 14.Qd2 e5 15.d5 e4 16.Nd4 Nc5 17.Rfb1 Nd3 18.Nxe4 Nxe4 19.Qxd3 Re8 is the adventurous continuation.
c) 10...c6 11.O-O Nc7 12.Qb3 Nf6 13.Rfd1 Ne6 14.Be3 is the silicon continuation.

White remains somewhat better at least. My preference for now (because without doubt this isn't the last word) is line b.
  

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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #6 - 07/23/17 at 15:42:13
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MNb wrote on 07/22/17 at 21:02:47:
I'm not so fond of 8...a6 because of 9.Bd3 axb5 10.cxb5 as White's space advantage looks pretty stabile.

To me this resulting pawn structure with three White pawn islands does not look very menacing. If I think about it as an OTB / non-corr player, my raw assessment would run along the lines: "If White really wants to achieve something, he has to push his kingside pawns - can he really be successful with the split pawns on the queenside?" In short, I'd be optimistic. The engine says +0.15. It's a game of chess.

However, what we perhaps agree about: after 6.b4 Nd7!?, the move 7.Nf3 can be regarded as a main line. The analysis below is just a first attempt. Let's see whether the folks on this forum can refute it.

I guess few otb-players would consider the weakening move 9.c5!?, but it is a dangerous continuation and I struggled for a while how to reply. 11...Bg4 looks counter-intuitive at first, but it seems to be the accurate move, to delay the attack Be3-h6 as long as possible. 


  
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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #5 - 07/22/17 at 21:02:47
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I'm not so fond of 8...a6 because of 9.Bd3 axb5 10.cxb5 as White's space advantage looks pretty stabile. What's more, 7.Nf3 g6 8.b5 avoids this. So 7.b5 Nab8 8.Nf3 g6 9.Nc3 Bg7 and Black can still decide how to attack White's pawn front. White has an obvious lead in development (I remember being worried about it) and some space advantage, But now 10.Bd3 can be perfectly met with c5. Against some other setups  even ...e5 is still in the cards.
I can't wait until July 31th. I'm far from convinced yet, but think it would be splendid. As long as Black has counterplay I don't mind an edge for White in such lines.
  

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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #4 - 07/22/17 at 00:23:27
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Many thanks for sharing your games. The first game against De Jong appears particularly important. I am glad that you played 5.a3 N4a6! which I happen to prefer over N4c6 myself. Counterplay with c5 (or b5) makes sense here, at least to me. Surprisingly I find only 72 games with 5...N4a6 in the database, versus 254 with N4c6.

Just a few remarks on De Jong - MNb.
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4
Most critical. Yet eventually we'll have to return to 4.Nf3. Playing for "two results" with 4...Bf5 must be sound, but it wouldn't help to make the variation popular. That said, I don't believe in Khalifman's antidote (in volume 3 of his Anand series, p. 325) 5.Nh4!?. It's a loss of a tempo after 5...Bd7 followed by e6 and c5 - nothing to worry about.
4...Nb4 5.a3
Géza Maróczy was the first to recommend this reply in Paul Morphy (1909): "Auf [4...] Sb4 antwortet Weiß am besten durch 5.a3. Fehlerhaft wäre es, mit 5.Da4+ auf Figurengewinn zu spielen, [...]" Funny how the Hungarian's comment, written in 1908, preceded the stem game of the system.
5...N4a6 6.b4
One of the most successful continuations: 85% out of 10 games. Alternatives are 6.Nc3 (23 games, 91%), 6.Nf3 (27 games, 74%) and 6.Be3 (10 games, 80%).
6...Nd7!

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I like this move. It could well represent the "solution" against 6.b4.
7.b5?!
Black's idea of c7-c5 is illustrated by 7.Nf3 g6 8.Be2 Bg7, for example: (a) 9.Nc3 c5! 10.bxc5 Ndxc5 11.0-0 0-0 12.Be3 b6 13.Rc1 Ne6 and Black can be satisfied with his position.
(b) 9.Ra2 c6 10.Nc3 Nc7 11.0-0 a5 12.Qb3 0-0 13.Bf4 b5!, about =.
7..Nab8 8.Nf3 c5
The immediate 8...a6 was more precise, about =.
9.Bb2
White had several other options, e.g. 9.bxc6 Nxc6! 10.d5 Nce5 +=.
9...cxd4 10.Bxd4

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10...f6
Preparing a move that Stockfish plays at once: 10...e5!, about =.
For much of the remaining game, White had an edge.

MNb wrote on 07/21/17 at 02:11:52:
1. Every single book on the Scandinavian either dismissed it or neglected it.
2. The one exception is an obscure Swedish monograph from 1967 written by a certain Bo Jonsson.
3. Polugaevsky once said that no opening is better than one with a bad reputation enriched with new ideas.
4. About 10 years before a new idea occurred to me for the Scandinavian Marshall Gambit: if White prevents ...e5 then play ...c5.
5. I couldn't find a refutation of this idea when analyzing it with Fritz 3 (or was it 2 ?) so I assumed my opponents couldn't either.

Your first point is still true today. In 123 volumes of NIC yearbook, there are 53 articles on the Scandinavian Defence, but just five of them cover 2...Nf6, and none of those would help someone facing 4...Nb4.

I'll post more thoughts over the next days. Other duties interfere from 26-30th of July though.
« Last Edit: 07/22/17 at 08:11:25 by Stefan Buecker »  
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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #3 - 07/21/17 at 23:22:28
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Hello.

So where does black go after 5.a3 exactly... 5...N4c6?

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #2 - 07/21/17 at 17:08:42
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14...Qg5 is worth looking at.
  

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Re: Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
Reply #1 - 07/21/17 at 02:11:52
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Unfortunately Thursday evening is not the best evening for me to look at analyses. But I promised to post four of my games. Unfortunately I noticed that my memory once again has deceived me; it were only three games, me scoring 2½. Still I will post that fourth game as well, just because fond memories. But let me first provide some context.
In the second half of the 1990's it became clear that silicon power would have a major impact on opening theory. Players learning to use it to their advantage had a huge though temporary advantage. I wasn't exactly the first one, but also far from the last ones. What's more, the big shots focused on mainstream stuff. I realized it could be used for any opening. One of my choices was the Kieler Gambit, for several reasons.

1. Every single book on the Scandinavian either dismissed it or neglected it.
2. The one exception is an obscure Swedish monograph from 1967 written by a certain Bo Jonsson.
3. Polugaevsky once said that no opening is better than one with a bad reputation enriched with new ideas.
4. About 10 years before a new idea occurred to me for the Scandinavian Marshall Gambit: if White prevents ...e5 then play ...c5.
5. I couldn't find a refutation of this idea when analyzing it with Fritz 3 (or was it 2 ?) so I assumed my opponents couldn't either.

De Jong - MNb, corr NBC II-671



½ - ½
This was the last game of the group and the draw secured my promotion.

One of the three wins was the off-topical

Muller - MNb, corr NBC II-671



0-1. I still like the final position, with the king completely safe in front of White's passed pawn. Finally the two wins:

Wilterdink - MNb, corr NBC  I-521


0-1 Ironically ...Nb4 is quite a threat.

Van Egdom - MNb, corr NBC I-523


I gave it up after losing games with 4.Nf3 Bf5 5.Be2 and especially 5.Bd3. Moreover I always have been suspecting that De Jong spoiled a serious opening advantage, so I felt that I had tried my luck long enough. But perhaps it deserves a resurrection - that would be splendid.
  

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Kiel Trap: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nb4
07/20/17 at 23:23:25
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A thread to discuss the so-called "Kiel Trap" (in German: Kieler Falle). Let's see whether 5.a3 is a clear refutation, or not.

To add a historical perspective, here is the stem game of the system. The "Handbuch" (8th ed., p. 825) refers to Schweizerische Schachzeitung 1910, a pretty rare source. There is a more detailed version in Wiener Schachzeitung 1912, p. 289, with comments borrowed from W. Therkatz (Krefelder Zeitung, 21 January 1911). Therkatz inform us that White is "Pastor A. Rhode, Schildberg", and Black "Leutnant zur See [= midshipman] von Zitzewitz, Kiel". Thus, two Germans participating in a Swiss correspondence tournament.

  
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