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Normal Topic Death of the Hecht-Reefschlaeger?? (Read 7547 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: Death of the Hecht-Reefschlaeger??
Reply #9 - 09/01/17 at 19:35:03
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MartinC wrote on 09/01/17 at 08:41:17:
Karpov's evaluation there is definitely in line with classical chess thinking - its basically a classical by then, and chopping on d3 hasn't been viewed as quite 'done' for a while.

I've played that sort of thing a couple of times as white and its definitely quite easy to play - you camp a knight on d4 and try to head for a good knight vs bishop ending. Quite two resultish.

Stefan's set up looks a fair bit punchier.


Well then classical chess thinking needs to be updated.  It definitely has a drawish tendency to it but it's just as easy to play Black here as White.  One sample variation:

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Bd3 Nb4 6. Bg5 Be7 7. e5 Nd7 8. Bxe7 Qxe7 9. O-O c5 10. Re1 O-O 11. dxc5 Nxc5 12. a3 Ncxd3 13. cxd3 Nc6 14. Qd2 Bd7
15. Rac1 h6 16. Ne2 b5 17. g3 (17. Rc2 b4) 17... Rfc8 18. Ned4 b4 19. Nxc6 Rxc6 20. Rxc6 Bxc6 21. axb4 Be8 22. Ra1 Rb8 23. Qc3 Qxb4 24. Rxa7 Qxb2 25. Qxb2 Rxb2
26. Ra8 Kf8 =, and there are variations lurking in there where Black can seize the initiative if White is a wee bit careless.  I looked at variations where White puts a Knight on d4 and variations where White plays b4 himself and then parks a Knight on d4 or other moves without finding anything that appears to trouble Black. 

Having said that, I'd play Stefan's variation before this one now as well.  Simply put, Negi's variation doesn't promise White any advantage.  I'd look to 4.e5!
  
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MartinC
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Re: Death of the Hecht-Reefschlaeger??
Reply #8 - 09/01/17 at 08:41:17
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Karpov's evaluation there is definitely in line with classical chess thinking - its basically a classical by then, and chopping on d3 hasn't been viewed as quite 'done' for a while.

I've played that sort of thing a couple of times as white and its definitely quite easy to play - you camp a knight on d4 and try to head for a good knight vs bishop ending. Quite two resultish.

Stefan's set up looks a fair bit punchier.
  
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Re: Death of the Hecht-Reefschlaeger??
Reply #7 - 09/01/17 at 02:37:13
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Glenn Snow wrote on 09/01/17 at 00:42:02:
Stefan Buecker's suggestion looks fine to me but I remember having yet another antidote ready.  After 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bd3 Nb4 6.Bg5 (or perhaps 6.e5) 6...Be7 7.e5 Nd7 8.Bxe7 Qxe7 9.0-0 0-0 10.Re1 c5! as played by Agdestein against Karpov at Gjovik 1991, Black is OK according to my computer.  Negi mentions that game which continued 11.dxc5 Nxc5 12.a3 Nc6 but Stockfish gives 12...Ncxd3 13.cxd3 Nc6 as better with equal play.


Karpov gave 12...Ncxd3 13. cd Nc6 14. Qd2 as clearly better for White ...hmmm.
  
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Re: Death of the Hecht-Reefschlaeger??
Reply #6 - 09/01/17 at 00:42:02
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Stefan Buecker's suggestion looks fine to me but I remember having yet another antidote ready.  After 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bd3 Nb4 6.Bg5 (or perhaps 6.e5) 6...Be7 7.e5 Nd7 8.Bxe7 Qxe7 9.0-0 0-0 10.Re1 c5! as played by Agdestein against Karpov at Gjovik 1991, Black is OK according to my computer.  Negi mentions that game which continued 11.dxc5 Nxc5 12.a3 Nc6 but Stockfish gives 12...Ncxd3 13.cxd3 Nc6 as better with equal play.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Death of the Hecht-Reefschlaeger??
Reply #5 - 08/31/17 at 23:23:20
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ACReed wrote on 08/31/17 at 19:23:04:
Ok....that seems to be alright. However, can he finesse it and transpose by going:

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Bd3 Nb4 6. e5 (first) Nd7 (what else) 7. Bg5 Be7 8. Bxe7 Qxe7 9. O-O Nxd3 10. cxd3... which transposes back to his game??

Christoph Wisnewski (Play 1...Nc6!, 2007; p.69) claims that cxd3 "is not as dangerous [...], the point being that 10.Nb5 can be met by 10...Qb4+."

10.0-0 is obviously better, but after 10...c6 11.Rc1 b6 12.Na4 Bb7 13.Qd2 a5 Black's structure is rock solid. Whenever White achieves b2-b4, Black can just stand still and take back on a5 with the rook. If b4-b5, he will always be able to react with c6-c5.

Something analoguous to the game like 13.Rc3 would be a little risky, as Black could try 13...g5! and g4 or h5. At some point castling long... why not?

I understand that White has other possibilities to conduct his play on the queenside, but imo a7-a5 is a strong & stable setup.
  
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Re: Death of the Hecht-Reefschlaeger??
Reply #4 - 08/31/17 at 20:29:49
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I don't like this ...Nb4 idea for black, but how bad is it?
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5. Bd3 Nb4 6.e5 Nd7 7.Bg5 Nxd3+ , idea 8.Qxd3 Be7 , or 8.cxd3 f6 (keeping the dark-squared bishop for now). Either way seems only += to me.
  
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Re: Death of the Hecht-Reefschlaeger??
Reply #3 - 08/31/17 at 19:23:04
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Ok....that seems to be alright. However, can he finesse it and transpose by going:

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Bd3 Nb4 6. e5 (first) Nd7 (what else) 7. Bg5 Be7 8. Bxe7 Qxe7 9. O-O Nxd3 10. cxd3... which transposes back to his game??
  
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Re: Death of the Hecht-Reefschlaeger??
Reply #2 - 08/31/17 at 08:50:00
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Is there anything wrong with 6...dxe4, transposing to the 5 Bg5 line in the Hecht-Reefschlaeger ChessPub Guide?
  
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Re: Death of the Hecht-Reefschlaeger??
Reply #1 - 08/31/17 at 00:40:17
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I recall Negi coming to a similar conclusion in his book.
  
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Death of the Hecht-Reefschlaeger??
08/30/17 at 19:28:14
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GM Luther reckons that this approach with 10.cxd3 and playing for good Knight v bad Bishop is big trouble for Black. Would be interested in thoughts/suggestions etc. as he seems to be on to something serious??

[Event "Hamburg St Pauli op-A"]
[Site "Hamburg"]
[Date "2011.07.11"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Luther, Thomas"]
[Black "Wittenberg, Andreas"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C10"]
[WhiteElo "2515"]
[BlackElo "2166"]
[PlyCount "89"]
[EventDate "2011.07.09"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "GER"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2011.08.29"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Bd3 Nb4 6. Bg5 Be7 7. e5 Nd7 8. Bxe7 Qxe7 9. O-O Nxd3 10. cxd3 a6 11. Rc1 b6 12. Na4 Ra7 13. Rc3 O-O 14. Qc2 c5 15.a3 Rc7 16. dxc5 bxc5 17. b4 c4 18. dxc4 dxc4 19. Rxc4 Rxc4 20. Qxc4 Bb7 21. Re1
Rc8 22. Qd3 h6 23. h3 Rc7 24. Qd6 Qxd6 25. exd6 Rc2 26. Ne5 Nxe5 27. Rxe5 Rd2 28. Nc5 Bc8 29. d7 Bxd7 30. Nxa6 Rd1+ 31. Kh2 Ra1 32. Ra5 Bc6 33. b5 Bxb5 34.Rxb5 Rxa3 35. Nc5 g6 36. Rb7 Ra5 37. Ne4 Rf5 38. f3 Kg7 39. Kg3 g5 40. Nd6 Rf4
41. Kf2 Kg6 42. g3 Rf6 43. Ke3 e5 44. Nc4 Kh5 45. Rb6 1-0
  
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