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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Correspondence Chess in a new age (Read 25882 times)
TN
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #13 - 09/06/17 at 05:02:37
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As someone who doesn't yet have the 'Thinking Inside the Box' book (but will buy soon),  I have to ask - are the techniques for correspondence analysis most useful for the opening/early middlegame phase, or are they just a general way of approaching the analysis to find things the engine misses? I ask because I've been interested for a while in how players find improvements/equivalent alternatives over semi-recent games by strong correspondence players, though that may well be a trade secret!
  
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Bibs
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #12 - 09/06/17 at 03:57:55
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Agreed.
Mods - pls keep an eye on 'trw'. Perhaps a firm word to behave via pm. Yes, does look like unpleasant trolling, alas. 

fwiw - I find Ntirlis to be a thoughtful, well-researched and strong writer. He has also contributed amply over the years herein.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #11 - 09/06/17 at 02:57:34
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trw wrote on 09/05/17 at 18:16:56:
proustiskeen wrote on 09/04/17 at 14:22:03:
trw wrote on 09/04/17 at 03:52:11:
proustiskeen wrote on 09/04/17 at 01:26:06:
Have a look at Ntirlis' appendix to Aagaard's new book _Thinking Inside the Box._ Very useful for corr players and analysts.

and it would be useful how...?

Lots of 'tricks of the trade' for corr players.

You're going to have to do better than that[...] I will revise my answer [regarding the rating of a player who merely leaves an engine on] to [Ntirlis's rating of] 2307.

Imperious language contemptuous to and of members writing in good faith. Ladies and gentlemen, this poster has devolved into a troll. Let us not feed it.
  
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proustiskeen
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #10 - 09/05/17 at 18:27:53
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trw wrote on 09/05/17 at 18:16:56:
proustiskeen wrote on 09/04/17 at 14:22:03:
trw wrote on 09/04/17 at 03:52:11:
proustiskeen wrote on 09/04/17 at 01:26:06:
Have a look at Ntirlis' appendix to Aagaard's new book _Thinking Inside the Box._ Very useful for corr players and analysts.



and it would be useful how...?



Lots of 'tricks of the trade' for corr players.



You're going to have to do better than that. As far as I am aware Aagaard has never played correspondence ever (unless it is under a fake name?).

Ntrilis is a pretty terrible author and a beginner at correspondence so I am not sure what tricks of the trade he could have acquired that aren't 100% common knowledge. His peak rating is 2307. He's been playing 4 years & has 105 games (though in reality only a few months as most of those events were beginner events). He only has two competitive events). His highest win is against 2371 and his next highest win is against a 2338. The highest rated player he has ever played is 2428. He's played 2 CCIM and CCSIM and never played a CCGM ever. He's only ever played 2 players 2400+. Not a great resume to be writing a tricks of the trade book.

He may well be a very good example of what EricTheRed was asking. I will revise my answer to 2307.


Maybe read the book (or, really, just Ntirlis' appendix) for yourself? I have only dabbled in corr so I'm not the best source for the ultimate cyborg engine techniques, but he does seem to go into quite a few areas where human has to guide engine analysis to avoid pitfalls.
  
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trw
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #9 - 09/05/17 at 18:16:56
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proustiskeen wrote on 09/04/17 at 14:22:03:
trw wrote on 09/04/17 at 03:52:11:
proustiskeen wrote on 09/04/17 at 01:26:06:
Have a look at Ntirlis' appendix to Aagaard's new book _Thinking Inside the Box._ Very useful for corr players and analysts.



and it would be useful how...?



Lots of 'tricks of the trade' for corr players.



You're going to have to do better than that. As far as I am aware Aagaard has never played correspondence ever (unless it is under a fake name?).

Ntrilis is a pretty terrible author and a beginner at correspondence so I am not sure what tricks of the trade he could have acquired that aren't 100% common knowledge. His peak rating is 2307. He's been playing 4 years & has 105 games (though in reality only a few months as most of those events were beginner events). He only has two competitive events). His highest win is against 2371 and his next highest win is against a 2338. The highest rated player he has ever played is 2428. He's played 2 CCIM and CCSIM and never played a CCGM ever. He's only ever played 2 players 2400+. Not a great resume to be writing a tricks of the trade book.

He may well be a very good example of what EricTheRed was asking. I will revise my answer to 2307.
  
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trw
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #8 - 09/05/17 at 05:28:44
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ErictheRed wrote on 09/04/17 at 18:26:47:
I'm sort of curious: if a player had a state-of-the-art computer (all the best hardware) and simply played correspondence by letting it run as deeply as he possibly could, then making the first choice of the engine every time; about what rating would that correspondence player have these days, do you think?



~2250-2300 depending on how the opening choices are set.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #7 - 09/04/17 at 18:26:47
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I'm sort of curious: if a player had a state-of-the-art computer (all the best hardware) and simply played correspondence by letting it run as deeply as he possibly could, then making the first choice of the engine every time; about what rating would that correspondence player have these days, do you think?
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #6 - 09/04/17 at 14:22:03
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trw wrote on 09/04/17 at 03:52:11:
proustiskeen wrote on 09/04/17 at 01:26:06:
Have a look at Ntirlis' appendix to Aagaard's new book _Thinking Inside the Box._ Very useful for corr players and analysts.



and it would be useful how...?



Lots of 'tricks of the trade' for corr players.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #5 - 09/04/17 at 07:01:32
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trw wrote on 09/02/17 at 16:36:21:
and 2) that engines continue to improve at such a massive clip that I find myself contributing less and less to each game.


Yes, that was a lot the reason why I (a CCSIM with one lapsed CCGM norm) gave up serious CC ten years ago. Nowadays I only play in thematic tournaments with my own pet lines where I can definitely bring a lot to the table.

I blogged about this last year...
http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/006-game-of-analysis.html

...though I guess that's off topic really to your goal of becoming a CCGM.
  
blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/
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trw
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #4 - 09/04/17 at 03:52:11
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proustiskeen wrote on 09/04/17 at 01:26:06:
Have a look at Ntirlis' appendix to Aagaard's new book _Thinking Inside the Box._ Very useful for corr players and analysts.



and it would be useful how...?
  
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proustiskeen
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #3 - 09/04/17 at 01:26:06
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Have a look at Ntirlis' appendix to Aagaard's new book _Thinking Inside the Box._ Very useful for corr players and analysts.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #2 - 09/03/17 at 22:08:17
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My instinct is that the two issues are more related than one might care to admit. I suspect that the single greatest improvement any correspondence chess player can make is to develop greater facility with using engines. It's one of the ugly features of correspondence chess at the moment. Nevertheless, I'm interested to see what comes of this experiment.
  
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TN
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #1 - 09/03/17 at 01:14:15
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I'm not currently interested in playing correspondence, but I'm in the process of making a serious study of correspondence games, out of general interest as much as anything else. I'd be very keen for collaborative opening work where I feel I may be able to offer something useful.
  
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trw
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Correspondence Chess in a new age
09/02/17 at 16:36:21
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Hello,

I am a 2375 rated correspondence player.

I am looking to become a CCGM and I really want to up my game. The only problem is I have been about 2375~ for nearly 7 years. I suppose a big part of the problem is 1) finding stronger players to learn from and 2) that engines continue to improve at such a massive clip that I find myself contributing less and less to each game.

My proposition with this thread is to deal with the first problem. Are there strong players here that are interested in seriously forming a collective to work towards CCGM? Perhaps training games? Sharing our trade secret methods? I am not sure what else we could come up with but I am fairly certain it will involve massive and often brutal changes to our opening repertoires which is a big reason I post this to this board.
  
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