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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Winawer: 7...0-0 8. Ad3 Cbc6 with 13. Dg4 b5 (Read 7759 times)
Leon_Trotsky
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Re: Winawer: 7...0-0 8. Ad3 Cbc6 with 13. Dg4 b5
Reply #7 - 10/04/19 at 18:50:52
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MartinC wrote on 10/04/19 at 08:47:06:
This isn't doing fine, its prolonged, deeply unpleasant suffering for a (possible) draw. In practical, over the board, terms its getting on for unplayable. White's got quite a wide choice of plans even - 20 Nf4 etc too.

Wouldn't be absolutely shocked if it was ultimately an objective loss somehow, maybe SF10 etc can hold it - they do defend this sort of thing much better than they persecute it though.


I disagree completely. Watson had made an update on 9. Ag5 a months ago and it seemed to conclude similar to what I analysed myself, that Black seems fine after some precise moves.

The fact that White is pouring energy into 9. Ag5 now makes me think that 9. Dh5 is not yielding anything big for White. That is why in my blog I called 9. Ag5 the "new main line" of the Winawer.
  
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MartinC
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Re: Winawer: 7...0-0 8. Ad3 Cbc6 with 13. Dg4 b5
Reply #6 - 10/04/19 at 08:47:06
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 07/22/18 at 21:29:34:
I wonder if Mr Watson can do an overview of current theory on this line, if he sees this post ? Seems like black is doing fine here but many the useful games are all correspondence.


This isn't doing fine, its prolonged, deeply unpleasant suffering for a (possible) draw. In practical, over the board, terms its getting on for unplayable. White's got quite a wide choice of plans even - 20 Nf4 etc too.

Wouldn't be absolutely shocked if it was ultimately an objective loss somehow, maybe SF10 etc can hold it - they do defend this sort of thing much better than they persecute it though.
  
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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: Winawer: 7...0-0 8. Ad3 Cbc6 with 13. Dg4 b5
Reply #5 - 07/22/18 at 21:29:34
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I wonder if Mr Watson can do an overview of current theory on this line, if he sees this post ? Seems like black is doing fine here but many the useful games are all correspondence.
  
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MNb
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Re: Winawer: 7...0-0 8. Ad3 Cbc6 with 13. Dg4 b5
Reply #4 - 05/01/18 at 05:53:10
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Rozenberg-Van Seben, 2015 WC39/pr04 ICCF.

You might also be interested in Lanzani-Laine, 2015 ITA-EUR ICCF and
Poel-Bell, 2015 NED-SCO ICCF.
All these three games ended with draws, while Black has lost a few games with 19...Kh7 (iso 19...Kf7).
  

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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: Winawer: 7...0-0 8. Ad3 Cbc6 with 13. Dg4 b5
Reply #3 - 05/01/18 at 01:42:25
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gillbod wrote on 10/05/17 at 21:39:26:
As far as I can see from the ICCF, the trend seems to be the following:

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne7 7.Qg4 O-O 8.Bd3 Nbc6 9.Qh5 Ng6 10.Nf3 Qc7 11.Be3 c4 12.Bxg6 fxg6 13.Qg4 b5 14.h4 Rf5 15.Ng5 Qe7 16.h5 h6 17.Nh3 gxh5 18.Qg3 h4 19.Qg4 Kf7 20.Ng1 Ke8 21.Nf3

And now both 21...Kd8 and 21...h3 have led to black holding the draw.


Do you know which game(s) are these, if you have access to that database ?
  
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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: Winawer: 7...0-0 8. Ad3 Cbc6 with 13. Dg4 b5
Reply #2 - 10/07/17 at 18:48:26
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Thanks for replying. I do not have the ICCF databases, could you tell which games they were? Maybe I can search them online.
  
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gillbod
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Re: Winawer: 7...0-0 8. Ad3 Cbc6 with 13. Dg4 b5
Reply #1 - 10/05/17 at 21:39:26
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As far as I can see from the ICCF, the trend seems to be the following:

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne7 7.Qg4 O-O 8.Bd3 Nbc6 9.Qh5 Ng6 10.Nf3 Qc7 11.Be3 c4 12.Bxg6 fxg6 13.Qg4 b5 14.h4 Rf5 15.Ng5 Qe7 16.h5 h6 17.Nh3 gxh5 18.Qg3 h4 19.Qg4 Kf7 20.Ng1 Ke8 21.Nf3

And now both 21...Kd8 and 21...h3 have led to black holding the draw.
  
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Leon_Trotsky
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Winawer: 7...0-0 8. Ad3 Cbc6 with 13. Dg4 b5
09/09/17 at 04:33:13
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Just wondering on how Berg's 13...b5 in the main line of the 13. Dg4 Winawer is doing. I do not see many games with this line in the database, and was wondering how were Black's ideas against Negi's 15. Cg5 nowadays.
  
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