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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Nimzo 4.f3 d5 - main line 8.dxc5 Qa5 (Read 5150 times)
Paul Cumbers
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Re: Nimzo 4.f3 d5 - main line 8.dxc5 Qa5
Reply #10 - 10/11/21 at 23:53:19
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1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 c5 6.e3 Nc6 7.Bd3 d6 8.Ne2 b6 9.0–0 Qd7 10.e4 Ba6 11.Bg5

MNb wrote on 09/17/21 at 06:43:20:
Yeah, but unfortunately Black can improve as well by playing ...h6 a move earlier and inviting a transposition the Spassky game: 11...h6 12.Bxf6 gxf6 and now White has to do something better than 13.Ng3 and 13.Nf4.

White gets good play by sacrificing the c4-pawn, e.g. 13.d5! Ne5 (13...Na5 is similar) 14.a4 Bxc4 15.Bxc4 Nxc4 16.Nf4/Ng3 0–0–0 17.Nh5 Qe7 and then activate rooks+queen, nudge a couple of pawns forward, and play against the weaknesses on f6/d6. Black's king is also a bit vulnerable (to an a4-a5 push at the right moment, say).
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Nimzo 4.f3 d5 - main line 8.dxc5 Qa5
Reply #9 - 10/01/21 at 18:00:04
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In the Chess24 video on f3 she tries to make a case for 12.a4. Computer calls it equal but maybe it's dynamic enough for OTB.
« Last Edit: 10/01/21 at 19:09:04 by Glenn Snow »  
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MNb
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Re: Nimzo 4.f3 d5 - main line 8.dxc5 Qa5
Reply #8 - 09/17/21 at 06:43:20
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Yeah, but unfortunately Black can improve as well by playing ...h6 a move earlier and inviting a transposition the Spassky game: 11...h6 12.Bxf6 gxf6 and now White has to do something better than 13.Ng3 and 13.Nf4.
Still thanks, after reading your comment it crossed my mind that White can postpone castling a bit and play 9.e4 first. That will keep me busy for a while.
  

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Re: Nimzo 4.f3 d5 - main line 8.dxc5 Qa5
Reply #7 - 09/16/21 at 17:11:43
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MNb wrote on 09/16/21 at 16:25:48:
What bothers me at the moment (from White's perspective) is a plan with castling queenside, eg Geller-Spassky, USSRch 1955. Three years later GM Geller did much better by following Jon. Tait's advise.  Cheesy

According to "Raymundo" Keene in his 1. d4 repertoire book from the '80s, Geller improved on the Spassky game later in the same event against Lisitsin (with 12. Nc1"!" instead of 12. Ng3"?").
  
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MNb
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Re: Nimzo 4.f3 d5 - main line 8.dxc5 Qa5
Reply #6 - 09/16/21 at 16:25:48
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A couple of months ago I bought GM Moskalenko's An Attacking Repoertoire for White. I have the same experience: 8...Qa5 and 9...Nf6 promises White nothing. Black will always take pawn c5, find good squares for the knights and start play against White's weaklings on the queenside.
The most interesting deviation imo is 8.Qd2 as in Neverov-Eggleston, Hasting 2008/2009, but I have my doubts. Black has the annoying threat ...f4.
So I looked at the old-fashioned 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 c5 6.e3. The Capablanca plan with ...Ne8 (eg the famous Geller-Euwe game) is not scary but interesting and equal (Geller-Broadbent from a year later is nice). The same applies to the Hübner plan with c5, d6 and e5 (Agrest-Lugovoi. St. Petersburg 1992 or Carlsen-Anand, internet 2020). Both sides can play for a win.
What bothers me at the moment (from White's perspective) is a plan with castling queenside, eg Geller-Spassky, USSRch 1955. Three years later GM Geller did much better by following Jon. Tait's advise.  Cheesy
  

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Jonathan Tait
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Re: Nimzo 4.f3 d5 - main line 8.dxc5 Qa5
Reply #5 - 12/12/17 at 15:46:16
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Yes, I played a few games with 4 f3 a while back (about 15 years ago apparently). I never got anywhere against this 8...Qa5 line. I suggest 1 e4 as an improvement Smiley
  

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Paul Cumbers
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Re: Nimzo 4.f3 d5 - main line 8.dxc5 Qa5
Reply #4 - 12/05/17 at 23:28:26
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FreeRepublic wrote on 12/04/17 at 18:41:56:
I now think 9...f5!? offers a rich game with chances for both sides. That is what I would play as black, and what I might hope to see as white.

I agree! However, in my games (and in the databases) 8...Qa5 has been way more popular than 8...f5. Cry

MartinC wrote on 12/05/17 at 09:55:58:
You could always try seeing if the computers can somehow make those old Shirov approaches earlier on workable? Even if they're only equal people might feel obliged to try refuting them.

I wonder what Anand was intending in game 9 of his 2013 World Campionship match against Carlsen. Alas, Carlsen played 7...exd5 (instead of 7...Nxd5), so we'll never know. Nevertheless it's interesting that Anand chose the f3 Nimzo in this "must-win" game.

I've looked at the 8.Qd3 lines - I wouldn't mind facing 8...cxd4 or 8...b6, but 8...0-0 bothers me, e.g. 9.e4 Ne7 10.f4 b6 11.Qe3 Ba6 12.Bxa6 Nxa6 13.Nf3 Qd7!? (both Chandler and Sokolov chose the more solid 13...cxd4 14.cxd4 Nc7 against Shirov). Black intends to place his queen aggressively on a4 (followed by centralising a rook or two), or else use the b4 square for his knight if White plays 14.a4, i.e. 14...cxd4 15.cxd4 Nb4 16.Qb3 a5 =+ Undecided
  
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Re: Nimzo 4.f3 d5 - main line 8.dxc5 Qa5
Reply #3 - 12/05/17 at 09:55:58
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I don't think you'll find exciting, but it does feel like it should be possible to find various ways to try and do some modest grinding?

It really isn't that forcing a position. Fun is good but with computers these days.....

You could always try seeing if the computers can somehow make those old Shirov approaches earlier on workable? Even if they're only equal people might feel obliged to try refuting them.
  
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Re: Nimzo 4.f3 d5 - main line 8.dxc5 Qa5
Reply #2 - 12/04/17 at 22:42:24
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Can't help you either I'm afraid. This is the line I play as Black against 4 f3 and haven't yet found a path to anything exciting for White
  
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FreeRepublic
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Re: Nimzo 4.f3 d5 - main line 8.dxc5 Qa5
Reply #1 - 12/04/17 at 18:41:56
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Sorry I can't help you. Perhaps others can.

I looked at this a while back and this is what I concluded.

I concentrated on 9...Qa5 from black's perspective. I found the lines to be somewhat dry. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't play it for white if I thought it gave an edge, or play it for black if it clearly equalized. I'm not sure either condition holds!

9...f5 had always seemed overaggressive to me. But I decided to give it another look. I now think 9...f5!? offers a rich game with chances for both sides. That is what I would play as black, and what I might hope to see as white.
  
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Paul Cumbers
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Nimzo 4.f3 d5 - main line 8.dxc5 Qa5
12/03/17 at 19:12:54
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If the Nimzo-Indian equalises, then at least White can make things interesting by playing 4.f3!?. Or so I thought... Shocked
In the main line with 9...Nf6, I'm struggling to see the appeal from White's point of view. How would you handle this variation?
  
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