Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD) (Read 10371 times)
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 625
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #20 - 08/27/19 at 14:41:29
Post Tools
Leon_Trotsky wrote on 08/25/19 at 21:05:54:
7...e6 is the weird Muzychuk line. It looks interesting, but probably does not have the theoretical reputation of 7...c6 and 7...De8.

I also wouldn't mind if Mihail Marin would give 7...e6, the "Christmas Tree Variation", in his upcoming book. James Vigus has 2 chapters about this move in Dangerous Weapons: The Dutch. He mentions Marin several times, because of his article in CBM 113.

Also Simon Williams has a show about this move on ChessBase: https://en.chessbase.com/post/simon-says-8
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4901
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #19 - 08/25/19 at 23:10:26
Post Tools
TD wrote on 08/25/19 at 21:33:50:
McDonald recommended 7...c6 8.d5 Bd7 instead of 8...e5. Only Beim mentions this also.

On one of those historical notes, this reminds me of Larsen, who wrote back in the 1970s that he didn't like "the book move" 8...e5.  I see that he played 8...Bd7 against Simon Webb in '73.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 625
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #18 - 08/25/19 at 21:33:50
Post Tools
Leon_Trotsky wrote on 08/25/19 at 21:05:54:
If I remember well, there was an Everyman book on the Dutch around 2010, I think by Neil McDonald. I think that he recommended 7...c6.

McDonald recommended 7...c6 8.d5 Bd7 instead of 8...e5. Only Beim mentions this also.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Leon_Trotsky
Senior Member
****
Offline


Кто был никем — тот станет
всем!

Posts: 499
Location: Barcelona, CAT
Joined: 08/11/17
Gender: Male
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #17 - 08/25/19 at 21:05:54
Post Tools
Stigma wrote on 08/25/19 at 06:25:19:
I thought the German-language book was from 2002 and the English-language edition from 2005. Was there an updated 2nd German edition as well?

I own Kindermann's book only in German, but I borrowed the English edition at some point and noticed that the coverage of 7...Qe8 8. Re1 had been greatly expanded between the editions. So Kindermann started realizing the danger some time before 2005...


Yes it was 2002 for the German book, I mixed up the year of publication.

If I remember well, there was an Everyman book on the Dutch around 2010, I think by Neil McDonald. I think that he recommended 7...c6. So this decade 7...c6 got popular.

7...c6 is the only real main line without problems so far. 7...Cc6 is playable like Xiong-Nakamura 2019 game, but the White sacrificing the rook on a1 (which White did not play in that game) looks scary for Black.

7...e6 is the weird Muzychuk line. It looks interesting, but probably does not have the theoretical reputation of 7...c6 and 7...De8.

So other than that it seems logical for 7...c6 being popular now.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 625
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #16 - 08/25/19 at 17:02:42
Post Tools
Stigma wrote on 08/25/19 at 14:47:04:
TD wrote on 08/25/19 at 07:47:58:
Kindermann, Karolyi and Demuth dislike 7...Qe8 8.Re1 Qf7 9.e4. Karolyi and Demuth also dislike 8.Nd5.


Thanks. Where do you get this info on the Demuth book - is it published already? I don't see any mention of it on Forward Chess, not even in "Coming Soon". Nothing on it on schachversand.de either.

I got the book three days ago.

https://www.debestezet.nl/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=4246
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Confused_by_Theory
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 648
Location: Europe
Joined: 05/13/15
Gender: Male
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #15 - 08/25/19 at 16:58:03
Post Tools
Hi.

Demuth's Leningrad book is out. I got the physical thing a few days ago.

Have a nice day.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3265
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #14 - 08/25/19 at 14:47:04
Post Tools
TD wrote on 08/25/19 at 07:47:58:
Kindermann, Karolyi and Demuth dislike 7...Qe8 8.Re1 Qf7 9.e4. Karolyi and Demuth also dislike 8.Nd5.


Thanks. Where do you get this info on the Demuth book - is it published already? I don't see any mention of it on Forward Chess, not even in "Coming Soon". Nothing on it on schachversand.de either.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 625
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #13 - 08/25/19 at 07:47:58
Post Tools
Kindermann, Karolyi and Demuth dislike 7...Qe8 8.Re1 Qf7 9.e4. Karolyi and Demuth also dislike 8.Nd5.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 625
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #12 - 08/25/19 at 07:39:43
Post Tools
Stigma wrote on 08/25/19 at 06:25:19:
Speaking of Pruijssers, his "Double Tuition" DVDs with Simon Williams are a couple of years more recent than his Chess24 video series, but he still recommends 7...Qe8 there. The queen move still has one staunch defender left!

A few links about the DVD. It looks very interesting!

https://www.ichess.net/shop/leningrad-dutch-simon-williams/

https://www.gingergm.com/shop/the-leningrad-dutch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XwVFldJV-8
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 625
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #11 - 08/25/19 at 07:31:03
Post Tools
Stigma wrote on 08/25/19 at 06:25:19:
I thought the German-language book was from 2002 and the English-language edition from 2005.

You are correct.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3265
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #10 - 08/25/19 at 06:25:19
Post Tools
Leon_Trotsky wrote on 08/25/19 at 05:20:56:
It is worth noting that Kindermann's 2005 Leningrad Dutch book in German Das Leningrader System he recommended 7...De8 if I remembered correctly. So clearly he must have found something that he switched to 7...c6 in his DWD.

I thought the German-language book was from 2002 and the English-language edition from 2005. Was there an updated 2nd German edition as well?

I own Kindermann's book only in German, but I borrowed the English edition at some point and noticed that the coverage of 7...Qe8 8. Re1 had been greatly expanded between the editions. So Kindermann started realizing the danger some time before 2005...

BeeCaves wrote on 08/24/19 at 21:59:18:
The chess24 videos/ebook by Pruijssers cover 7... Qe8


Speaking of Pruijssers, his "Double Tuition" DVDs with Simon Williams are a couple of years more recent than his Chess24 video series, but he still recommends 7...Qe8 there. The queen move still has one staunch defender left!
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Leon_Trotsky
Senior Member
****
Offline


Кто был никем — тот станет
всем!

Posts: 499
Location: Barcelona, CAT
Joined: 08/11/17
Gender: Male
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #9 - 08/25/19 at 05:20:56
Post Tools
That gambit line where White sacrifices the c4-pawn look annoying to me. Black really has to fix that line because if not White gets too much compensation. My guess is that for now only computer-aided obscure anti-intutitive lines might be given for Black. Which might not suit practical players.

I analyse similar lines in the 7...0-0 Winawer, but at least in the Winawer, not only Black but also White has also to follow obscure anti-intuitive lines over the board to even try to get anywhere  Cheesy

It is worth noting that Kindermann's 2005 Leningrad Dutch book in German Das Leningrader System he recommended 7...De8 if I remembered correctly. So clearly he must have found something that he switched to 7...c6 in his DWD.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BeeCaves
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 66
Joined: 03/09/18
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #8 - 08/24/19 at 21:59:18
Post Tools
The chess24 videos/ebook by Pruijssers cover 7... Qe8
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 625
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #7 - 08/24/19 at 15:47:41
Post Tools
Stigma wrote on 02/21/18 at 04:28:41:
MHG wrote on 12/04/17 at 14:23:36:
He recommends 7...c6 instead of 7...Qe8. After Qe8 he doesn't like 8.Re1 Qf7 9.e4 and 8.d5 a5 (8...Na6 9.Rb1) 9.Be3 Na6 10.Qd2.
[...]

I'm just now thinking of getting this DVD. But I'm not too keen on 7...c6 8.d5 e5, at least not as an only choice. Would like to have 7...Qe8 available. How much detail does Kindermann go into regarding those 7...Qe8 lines he dislikes? Enough for someone to try to repair them?  Smiley

In their new books both Karolyi and Demuth prefer 7...c6 over 7...Qe8. I hope Marin in his upcoming book will revive 7...Qe8, but I have my doubts...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MHG
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 6
Joined: 03/18/14
Gender: Male
Re: Der listige Leningrader - Kindermann (2016, DVD)
Reply #6 - 02/21/18 at 07:28:18
Post Tools
Stigma wrote on 02/21/18 at 04:28:41:
I'm just now thinking of getting this DVD. But I'm not too keen on 7...c6 8.d5 e5, at least not as an only choice. Would like to have 7...Qe8 available. How much detail does Kindermann go into regarding those 7...Qe8 lines he dislikes? Enough for someone to try to repair them?  Smiley


I don't have the DVD with me but as far as i remember he gives only the moves i mentioned. For Qe8 you have to find another source - maybe Malaniuk's book?! If you are satisfied with the current state of this line just play it. At least i would because my usual opponents are patzers like me and not GMs...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo