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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Books on Analyzing One's Own Games (Read 23472 times)
ReneDescartes
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #24 - 01/06/18 at 03:22:36
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Yusupov has a chapter on how to analyze your own games in Dvoretsky's Secrets of Chess Training. Very good stuff.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #23 - 01/05/18 at 17:01:37
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I agree mn, and I think that I'll pick up one of Crouch's books.  I highly recommend that you get the Yermolinsky book that I mentioned earlier, also. These sorts of books are extremely informative for us good-but-not-great amateurs.  I learned a lot from seeing how Yermolinsky outplays people in that 2200-2500 range.
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #22 - 01/05/18 at 11:23:10
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I've found "Understanding Your Chess" available in my local library system, so I've placed a hold for it. Most of the negative reviews I've seen of it say that it's "just an IM annotating some of his own games", although, I found out reading Crouch that I actually quite enjoy reading good-but-not-elite players giving their thoughts on their own play (regardless if the title may be slightly misleading).
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #21 - 01/04/18 at 20:33:02
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LeeRoth wrote on 01/04/18 at 18:40:54:
fjd wrote on 01/03/18 at 10:18:24:
Hi, 

Does anyone know of any other books in a similar vein to (the late) Colin Crouch's "Why We Lose at Chess" and "Analyze your Chess" (i.e. author has a look at their own games and examines their mistakes and the psychology behind them)?


Rizzitano's Understanding Your Chess (Gambit 2004) is one of the best books in this genre.  It has lots of practical advice for club players.

Review by Seagaard ChessReviews:

"A Games Collection
But back to the premise Understanding Your Chess... This is where the book disappoints. It simply does not meet the horizon of expectations, which it sets up. I do not come closer to understanding my chess, learn from my games, or improve my results. At best, I can use the games as a template for studies of my own games, however the book lacks guidance, tools, and teaching. It is simply a collection of annotated games by an average International Master."
  
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TD
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #20 - 01/04/18 at 20:27:00
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TD wrote on 01/04/18 at 20:23:44:
LeeRoth wrote on 01/04/18 at 18:40:54:
Rizzitano's Understanding Your Chess (Gambit 2004) is one of the best books in this genre.  It has lots of practical advice for club players.

I find it strange that this title is not in their list of publications...

But now I found it via Google! Smiley

http://www.gambitbooks.com/books/Understanding_Your_Chess.html
  
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TD
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #19 - 01/04/18 at 20:23:44
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LeeRoth wrote on 01/04/18 at 18:40:54:
Rizzitano's Understanding Your Chess (Gambit 2004) is one of the best books in this genre.  It has lots of practical advice for club players.

I find it strange that this title is not in their list of publications...
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #18 - 01/04/18 at 18:40:54
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fjd wrote on 01/03/18 at 10:18:24:
Hi, 

Does anyone know of any other books in a similar vein to (the late) Colin Crouch's "Why We Lose at Chess" and "Analyze your Chess" (i.e. author has a look at their own games and examines their mistakes and the psychology behind them)?


Rizzitano's Understanding Your Chess (Gambit 2004) is one of the best books in this genre.  It has lots of practical advice for club players.
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #17 - 01/04/18 at 17:00:54
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brabo wrote on 01/04/18 at 16:25:18:

Oh but I don't deny at all doing additional chess-activities like solving, reading,... can further boost your level. What the optimal balance is, is something surely depending of the person (strength, available time to study, available time to play, preferences, financial means, age, ...) However I do think most players are today heavily under-evaluating the power of analyzing one's own games and accordingly don't spend enough time at it. So the risk of doing too much is many times smaller than doing too little.

Agreed, it depends on the person. I used to analyze my games in some detail (though nowhere near your level), but it got to a point where I realized I keep making the same kinds of mistakes in my games (often connected to time trouble, slow or chaotic calculation, or poor endgame skills/knowledge). So it seems clear that I should spend my limited training time actually working on those weaknesses instead of continuing to analyze my games deeply, since that would just give me more of the same answers that I already know. 

I don't know, but I get the impression from your blog that you're great at opening preparation both in general and for specific opponents. But then there must logically be some other areas of your game that are weaker and keep you from improving still further?

brabo wrote on 01/04/18 at 16:25:18:

Anway the initial question of this thread was about how to analyze one's own games. A discussion about optimal improvement plans is definitely also very interesting but it is not exactly what was asked for. I think here a more indepth discussion about methods and tools about analyzing is more appropriate.

Well, part of the initial question was also 

fjd wrote on 01/03/18 at 10:18:24:
(i.e. author has a look at their own games and examines their mistakes and the psychology behind them)?

So both kinds of discussion are relevant and interesting - techniques of analysis, and finding typical mistakes and the reasons for them. And these are to some extent connected.
  
Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #16 - 01/04/18 at 16:34:56
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/04/18 at 16:07:14:

Here is my contribution: No matter how we study chess, at some point we are going to reach a plateau. The way to break through that barrier is to do something different from what we did to reach it.

True. Besides often we know very well what is needed but there are too many obstacles which don't allow us to execute the necessary changes. For myself I made last month a top 3 list of what is needed see http://chess-brabo.blogspot.ru/2017/12/killer-novelties.html.
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #15 - 01/04/18 at 16:25:18
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Stigma wrote on 01/04/18 at 15:26:19:
@brabo:

I don't doubt that you're doing something right. You are some 100 rating points above me, after all. But I'm still surprised when people say they've never worked much with tactical exercises, for example. To me it's obvious that such players have an opportunity for big improvements in their results right there. I'm sure you see lots of tactical patterns in your computer work, but are you certain there's no extra benefit to solving well-chosen exercises as well?

And with all those hours of game analysis, I would certainly redirect some of those hours to finding my systematic weaknesses and choosing some great advanced books on the topics that most need work, by Dvoretsky or Aagaard for instance. Or game collections by GMs who excel in the areas where you're lacking. I know that's what I would do if I had any time left for chess training these days.

But that's part of what makes chess and chess training interesting - there are many different ways to do it.

Oh but I don't deny at all doing additional chess-activities like solving, reading,... can further boost your level. What the optimal balance is, is something surely depending of the person (strength, available time to study, available time to play, preferences, financial means, age, ...) However I do think most players are today heavily under-evaluating the power of analyzing one's own games and accordingly don't spend enough time at it. So the risk of doing too much is many times smaller than doing too little.

Anway the initial question of this thread was about how to analyze one's own games. A discussion about optimal improvement plans is definitely also very interesting but it is not exactly what was asked for. I think here a more indepth discussion about methods and tools about analyzing is more appropriate.
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #14 - 01/04/18 at 16:07:14
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Stigma wrote on 01/04/18 at 12:38:07:
In that process my actual thoughts during the game, including the time spent on each move, are the main data.

This is why I always want to do a post-mortem with my opponent. Not to discover the "truth", but to reflect on what I was thinking during the game. 

brabo wrote on 01/04/18 at 08:48:41:
All this I discuss on my blog and much more. For me that are the questions which people are searching when they want an answer about how to analyze one's own games.

Yes you are right about that. I have read a lot of books on how to use computers for chess. They don't go into any detail on these points. If I research, for example, time management, I can get instructions down to the minute on how to organize my calendar, todo list, etc. If a chessplayer were to write about time management, it might be "get a calendar". And then someone else would chirp in with, "get a todo list". 

Here is my contribution: No matter how we study chess, at some point we are going to reach a plateau. The way to break through that barrier is to do something different from what we did to reach it.
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #13 - 01/04/18 at 15:26:19
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@brabo:

I don't doubt that you're doing something right. You are some 100 rating points above me, after all. But I'm still surprised when people say they've never worked much with tactical exercises, for example. To me it's obvious that such players have an opportunity for big improvements in their results right there. I'm sure you see lots of tactical patterns in your computer work, but are you certain there's no extra benefit to solving well-chosen exercises as well?

And with all those hours of game analysis, I would certainly redirect some of those hours to finding my systematic weaknesses and choosing some great advanced books on the topics that most need work, by Dvoretsky or Aagaard for instance. Or game collections by GMs who excel in the areas where you're lacking. I know that's what I would do if I had any time left for chess training these days.

But that's part of what makes chess and chess training interesting - there are many different ways to do it.
  
Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #12 - 01/04/18 at 15:18:29
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1. I'm well aware of your blog, Brabo. It is on my must-read list.

2. That said, I have talked about some of the issues you raise in other writings, but for my full discussion of the kinds of technical issues you raise, you'll just have to wait for my book. Smiley

brabo wrote on 01/04/18 at 08:48:41:
proustiskeen wrote on 01/03/18 at 17:37:23:

These articles mainly try to convince the readers how important it is to analyze one's own games. It only scratches the surface about how you should analyze one's own games.

When I talk on my blog about analyzing my games then I focus on the technical aspects.
1) When to use full analysis/ deep position analysis/ monte carlo analysis, infinite analysis.
2) Does it makes sense for e.g. 1600 rated player to check his analysis with Komodo and then once more with Stockfish, Houdini,...
3) How much time should I give the engine to analyze a game?
4) Which databases should I check for the opening?
5) From which move onwards should I check the opening as clearly from move 1 does not make any sense?
6) Should I use tablebases for the endgame and how?
7) What is the benefit of backwards analyzing?
8) From which point can I consider my played move a mistake?
9) Should I also look at alternatives for every move and what exactly is an acceptable alternative?
10) Should I add comments to the analysis and which comments?
11) Can I remove (bad) analysis as sometimes the file becomes unreadible? How do you deal with that?
12) Should I revise analysis made of years ago or can I let it rest?
13) How often should I check for new versions of engines, databases, hardware? Can I skip some releases....
14) Which shortkeys do you use often? Do you have developed some special tools/ other techniques?

All this I discuss on my blog and much more. For me that are the questions which people are searching when they want an answer about how to analyze one's own games.

  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #11 - 01/04/18 at 13:53:56
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Stigma wrote on 01/04/18 at 12:38:07:
So the point of computer analysis (or any analysis) is to find out in what ways I need to play better in the future, and how I could train to achieve that.

I am not going to tell you that this is bad or good. It is just not the way how I got my + 2300 fide-rating. I am sure that most of my today's strength came from working daily with the engines. In fact I have read almost no instructive chessbooks at all to get to that level and maintain it. Neither did I do any special tactical trainings or follow any other classes. No I just put thousands of hours work into analyzing my games.

So I don't know if your preferred method is better but I do know that most people are not realizing what potential of improvement is hidden into spending a lot of time into analyzing the smallest details of one's own games. How to do such detailed analysis is my speciality.
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #10 - 01/04/18 at 12:38:07
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brabo wrote on 01/04/18 at 12:19:19:
Stigma wrote on 01/04/18 at 11:34:12:
@brabo:

Nice and exhaustive list of technical issues, but I feel the single most important thing is missing from it: Getting your own thoughts during the game down in a database (or on paper) as soon as possible after the game, and before checking with any kind of engine, tablebase, opening book, etc.

I want to add 2 things about that aspect.
1) Yes I agree we should also cover the ideas which popped up during the game but did not materialize on the board in the analysis of a game. I do that as mentioned on my blog but from technical point there is not much to say. The ideas are something personal so you have them or you don't have them.
2) A serious standard game lasts between 3-5 hours. During that time you are normally concentrated maximally at producing the best calculations and eventually moves. It is very unlikely that 1-2 hours of some individual analysis afterwards often in a too relaxed environment will produce interesting analysis. I see nowadays most postmortems immediately use engines.

I'm unsure from your comments whether my actual point came across, so I will try to put it a bit differently:

For me OTB chess is about the fight (against the opponent and against my own failings) and the competition. I don't care much about the ultimate truth some computer could find in days of analysis. So the point of computer analysis (or any analysis) is to find out in what ways I need to play better in the future, and how I could train to achieve that. In that process my actual thoughts during the game, including the time spent on each move, are the main data. That's what I'm talking about, not any additional individual analysis made in 1-2 hours afterwards. 

But the exact thoughts during the game can be quickly forgotten, that's why it's important to record them quickly. Turning on the engine immediately to look for objective answers is likely to distort those memories. I know many players now do this, including many of the world's top players, but I still resist this and I believe we lose something by not recording our own thoughts at the board first. 

Maybe the top players are objective enough and have good enough memories to remember their precise thoughts at the board even after an engine has "interferred", but I know I don't.

P.S.: I am not talking mainly about opening theory/preparation here, but about the rest of the game, where you have to think for yourself and where most games (at least in my practice) are decided. Though of course if I was surprised in the opening or forgot my preparation, I will mark that as an area to improve.
  
Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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