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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Books on Analyzing One's Own Games (Read 23479 times)
Pawnpusher
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #39 - 03/18/18 at 19:42:10
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Somewhere Botvinnik is revolving at high speed.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #38 - 03/17/18 at 04:12:16
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Robin Smith (2004) Modern Chess Analysis is currently $2.00 at uscfsales.com.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #37 - 03/17/18 at 03:55:45
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* * * * * * * *
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* After 53...R-R1? (...Rh3-h8)

53 KxP? (53.Kxb5)
Quote:
Now it’s Gligorich’s turn to let me out. As Olafsson showed me, White can win with 53 R-B7+! (53.Rc7+) It’s hard to believe. I stayed up all night analyzing, finally convincing myself and, incidentally, learning a lot about Rook and Pawn endings in the process.
— Bobby Fischer (1969) My 60 Memorable Games, page 85.
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #36 - 03/16/18 at 22:07:46
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ErictheRed wrote on 03/16/18 at 21:25:30:
I assume that it's something like professional football players after losing the Super Bowl.  For the most part, they know what went wrong, ...
Immediately after the loss, I don't think they do know what went wrong. I do think they think they know what went wrong.

ErictheRed wrote on 03/16/18 at 21:25:30:
... and they have dedicated coaches and trainers who look at the game film in detail and provide them with more targeted feedback than an overall analysis of the game.
Exactly. After this happens, then they do know what went wrong.

Knowing what went wrong in a game is not an issue of absolute ability or rating. It's a diagnostic question. During a game you are playing, after a game you are analyzing. It's a totally different mode of thinking, much broader in scope and with much more available time and resources (computers and coaches and even the general public). Strong players in-game are less limited by their ability, but they are just as limited by mode of thinking, time, and resources.

I would be very surprised if Aronian the analyst could not out-think and out-diagnose Aronian the player. If Aronian really applied himself as an analyst, he might be surprised to discover what Aronian the player had overlooked in a game.
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #35 - 03/16/18 at 21:25:30
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brabo wrote on 03/16/18 at 08:16:33:
Today I read at https://www.chess.com/news/view/fide-candidates-tournament-r5-grischuk-thrills-a... that Aronian doesn't analyze his games: "I generally don't analyze my games after I play them. I mean you normally know what went wrong, or, when you win, you don't wanna dwell on the feeling of your greatness. It's better to just forget the game after you played it."

Is it a joke or he only refers to the time just after the game so analyzing still happens later after the tournament? Or maybe Aronian thinks analyzing your own games is way overestimated.


I think that he was being serious.  Likely, after the game and during the post-mortem with whichever world-class player he was paired, he probably does understand rather well what went wrong.  So there probably isn't much need for him to analyze individual games.  He likely has a team of trainers who are looking through his games, finding mistakes and trends, and providing him with targeted training material and things like that.  He may do some deep analysis of some of his games afterwards, the ones that he is most interested in or where his trainers identify particular things that he needs to work on. 

I assume that it's something like professional football players after losing the Super Bowl.  For the most part, they know what went wrong, and they have dedicated coaches and trainers who look at the game film in detail and provide them with more targeted feedback than an overall analysis of the game.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #34 - 03/16/18 at 11:57:02
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brabo wrote on 03/16/18 at 08:16:33:
Aronian: “I mean you normally know what went wrong, ...”
Only by analyzing your own games will you find out that’s not true.
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #33 - 03/16/18 at 08:16:33
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Today I read at https://www.chess.com/news/view/fide-candidates-tournament-r5-grischuk-thrills-a... that Aronian doesn't analyze his games: "I generally don't analyze my games after I play them. I mean you normally know what went wrong, or, when you win, you don't wanna dwell on the feeling of your greatness. It's better to just forget the game after you played it."

Is it a joke or he only refers to the time just after the game so analyzing still happens later after the tournament? Or maybe Aronian thinks analyzing your own games is way overestimated.
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #32 - 02/21/18 at 08:47:56
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Stigma wrote on 02/20/18 at 20:17:48:


But yes, playing lots of games must also have some training effect in itself.

At the beginning of this schoolyear I demanded from my students to play at least 50 rated games each year see http://chess-brabo.blogspot.com/2017/11/holidays-part-3.html My classes are not made to entertain but to improve. 

In my article http://schaken-brabo.blogspot.com/2017/02/ervaring.html I clearly proved there exists a strong correlation between playing a lot of chess and improving. 

So yes I consider playing serious competitive chess is likely the most important tool to improve.
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #31 - 02/21/18 at 01:09:48
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I feel two ways about the subject of training methods.

(a) One of my engineering professors constantly repeated that petroleum cracking was "time and temperature dependent". Chesswise, the mere fact that a player is not improving is not a sure criticism of their study techniques. The method may be sound, but simply lacking in sufficient time or intensity.

(b) That said, there are obviously good and, shall we say, less good ways of studying chess. So if a player is both putting in the time and really applying himself and does not see any improvement long-term, then it may be necessary to try a different study method.

I take it as a given that if the time and intensity factor remains constant, at whatever level the player is able to afford, AND the training methods remain the same, then the player will sooner or later reach a plateau. The cracking tower reaches a steady state if you will. One of the factors will have to be changed in order to break through the plateau. Instead what frequently happens is that players become wedded to their favorite methods, think "it got me this far so it can't be bad", and blame their lack of improvement on a shortage of talent.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #30 - 02/20/18 at 20:17:48
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Yes, marriage and children can explain a lot, of course.

Still, when I look at my own sorry history of unsystematic training and failing to deal with known weaknesses, I would expect someone as dedicated and systematic as you to get farther ahead of me than you actually have. Your peak is also roughly 100 points above my peak.

But yes, playing lots of games must also have some training effect in itself. And maybe I'm underestimating how large a difference in playing strength 100 points represents.

I'm not trying to be difficult or hostile here, honest! Just genuinely interested in chess training and different perspectives on it. Smiley
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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brabo
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #29 - 02/20/18 at 19:40:54
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Stigma wrote on 02/20/18 at 17:42:33:
It means you could still improve a lot by making your training more varied.

So I don't improve because my today's training is not good, right? Or differently said I am wasting most of my training time.

Well in 2005 I reached my peak of almost 2350 fide by exclusively using today's trainingmethod. Maybe that is the maximum I could've achieved with that special trainingmethod but I have another theory. In 2006 I married and soon got 2 children. Simultaneously I cancelled all my interclub and tournaments abroad and only played since against mainly much weaker players. In fact I only played the last decade about 10 fide-rated games per year (check my history).

I am still regularly talking to masters and the first they tell me is to increase my chess-activity on the board if I want to improve. You can't expect any serious improvement from any training no matter how hard and varied it is if this is not combined with serious practice.
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #28 - 02/20/18 at 17:42:33
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Interesting article as always, brabo. I suppose you're referring to me when you write:

Quote:
Some poster claimed that I am just losing my time by analyzing deeper my games and it would be better to spend that time to other chess-activities like reading chess-books, solving exercises,...


I don't think I said you're "just losing your time", at any rate I don't mean it that strongly. It's just that in my own case with computer analysis I keep discovering the same kinds of mistakes, and they are mostly not about suboptimal opening play, but about calculation, endgame play and other areas where typical solving and studying good books should help.

Both I and my usual opponents often make mistakes all through the game, so the opening isn't decisive. I would expect the same to be true of your games since you're less than 100 rating points above me. But still judging from your blog, your training/analysis work is largely focused on the opening. This was surprising to me. I concluded since you've worked so hard on computer analysis and openings and you're still not a lot stronger than me, who played a lot but never trained as seriously or systematically as I should, you must be neglecting other areas of the game.

I still think that's a reasonable inference. But if I'm right, that's not a negative message at all: It means you could still improve a lot by making your training more varied.

Of course I'm sure I could also gain a lot by analyzing my games deeply (but in addition to, not instead of working more directly on chess skills and knowledge).
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #27 - 02/20/18 at 17:04:32
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In my most recent blogarticle I came back on this topic see https://chess-brabo.blogspot.com/2018/02/to-analyze-using-computer-part-2.html
  
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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #26 - 01/07/18 at 09:04:57
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I really like Kalinin's coverage of this in his 'Chess Training for Candidate Masters'.
  

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Re: Books on Analyzing One's Own Games
Reply #25 - 01/06/18 at 21:28:10
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Aagaard also has a chapter on how to analyze your own games.

Quote:
Write down three new things you have learned from the game
, etc..

Excelling at Positional Chess (2003)
  
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