Stigma wrote on 01/17/18 at 20:52:15:


I think that's right.  After 8.f4 a6, White can choose a line of the Classical without an early Be3.  One idea is to move order Black after 9.Kh1 Qc7 (since 9..Nc6?! is met by 10.Nxc6 bxc6 11.e5) 10.Qe1 Nc6 11.Be3 Nxd4 12.Bxd4 into a main line where the Queen is committed to c7.  In this line, Black more often plays 10..b5, when 11.Bf3 Bb7 12.e5 Ne8 13.f5 looks scary, but held up fine for Black in the first, unfinished Karpov-Kasparov match.   

LeeRoth wrote on 01/17/18 at 19:36:32:

Yes, analysis of those two games and several with 9.Kh1 take up most of Adorjan's chapter. I can't find any mention of your 13.Nxe7+ Qxe7 14.e5.

I assume you have checked corr. databases for recent games? Apart from OTB games, I have only looked at UltraCorr 3a, and it's from 2010.

About the 8.Be3 sidestep: There must be some reason why White often chooses 8.f4 over 8.Be3 though. Maybe he wants to play a line where the bishop stays on c1 for a while, or at least keep Black in the dark about it. So 8...Qb6 could still be useful if you can make it work (or even if not, as a surprise gamble or blitz weapon).

Adorjan gives a note 8.Be3 a6 9.f4 Qc7 10.Kh1 (10.a4!) 10...b5 11.Bf3 Bb7 12.e5 dxe5 13.fxe5 Nfd7 '=+'. After that 10.a4 I see that most Black players return to main lines with 10...Nc6, though some try 10...b6 11.Bf3 Bb7 and now 12.g4 is met by 12...Nc6 finally, while 12.Qe1 is met by 12...Nbd7. This is beyond my Scheveningen knowledge to be honest, but I guess Black really wants to play ...Nbd7, but after 12.g4 he has to keep that retreat square open for the f6 knight? Black has avoided the well-known tempo loss ...Bd7-c8 in any case, but I don't know if that's relevant in these specific lines.

I looked at my copy of Adorjan's Black Is Still OK (2004), and have to correct myself: I haven't refuted the line.

I had scribbled a note indicating this corr. game improves on Adorjan's analysis with 21.Rb5!:



But Black can try to deviate, for instance with 20...Bd8!?, which looks fine (though I only looked at it briefly with Stockfish just now).

Though if nobody plays 8...Qb6 anymore, there probably is a reason. Pritchett's Scheveningen book is 11 years old already, so even if his analysis was the best possible back then, a lot may have changed in the meantime. The line you initially gave does look unpleasant for Black.

I remember taking a look at this Adorjan patent back when his book Black Is Still OK was published. He had a chapter titled The Philosopher's Stone on 8...Qb6.

I went through some corr. games with an engine running and concluded that Black was clearly worse. Might have been the same line you're giving, I'm not entirely sure.

Can't White play 8 Be3 and f2-f4 later and simply bypass this ...Qb6 idea?