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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians? (Read 4906 times)
Keano
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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #15 - 02/12/18 at 10:46:14
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1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c5 3 d5 d6 4 Nc3 e5 5.Bd2

Why are people saying this is such a great option for Black? Playable maybe, but I would take White, he should have a normal opening edge as much as any other opening (IMO)
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #14 - 01/26/18 at 16:45:54
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RoleyPoley wrote on 01/24/18 at 08:41:50:
I was also going to mention this book as it is what i used to use when i played KI/Benoni set ups. Wasnt sure if it the lines would still stand up (i only remember using the g5 line against the tromp in it against a club mate in the club tournament one year!)




I think that the overall repertoire holds up quite well, but of course theory has progressed, so if you want to play those lines you'll need to update some analysis with a database and engine.  I don't really find that a problem, personally; these days, I expect that. 

I don't know Dembo's book very well, but I remember not enjoying some of her repertoire choices as much as I liked Gallagher's--from a purely personal preference standpoint.
  
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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #13 - 01/26/18 at 16:06:37
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mn wrote on 01/26/18 at 00:38:43:
1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c5 3 d5 d6 4 Nc3 e5! looks like a pretty convincing answer.
I agree with your exclam. This is how Aronian played it. 5.Bd2 in reply does not impress me at all. It's worth mentioning this was a blitz game.

mn wrote on 01/26/18 at 00:38:43:
Alternatively, if you don't mind defending the Vaganian Gambit, you could go 3...Qb6 4 Nc3 Qxb2 [5 Bd2], although this is obviously riskier.
I know about this one. I have taken such poisoned pawns, only if I am sure my opponent has not analyzed beforehand. Sometimes it has worked out, sometimes I have been punished.

mn wrote on 01/26/18 at 00:38:43:
3...Qa5 I'm not sure I understand - normally in the Trompowsky Black gives check while his Knight is on e4 - here can't White just play 4 Bd2 - ?
1.d4 c5 2.d5 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.e4 exd5 5.e5! += (at least) is a theme I have played for white. My idea was 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 c5 3.d5 Qa5+!? 4.Bd2 Qb6 5.Nc3 e6 6.e4 exd5 7.e5 Qe6 unclear. Also after the simple 7.exd5 it is hard to assess Qb6 vs Bd2. That is what I was curious about.
  
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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #12 - 01/26/18 at 00:38:43
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1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c5 3 d5 d6 4 Nc3 e5! looks like a pretty convincing answer. Alternatively, if you don't mind defending the Vaganian Gambit, you could go 3...Qb6 4 Nc3 Qxb2 [5 Bd2], although this is obviously riskier.

3...Qa5 I'm not sure I understand - normally in the Trompowsky Black gives check while his Knight is on e4 - here can't White just play 4 Bd2 - ?
  
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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #11 - 01/25/18 at 22:43:54
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semper_fidelis wrote on 01/25/18 at 11:16:18:
As for 2.Bf4 c5, this appeared at very top (Carlsen-Aronian, Leuven 2017), where 3.d5 followed. This seems critical, but resulting positions are again, not London-type. Other 3rd moves for White seem inferior. So, 2...c5 looks like nice practical anti-London Smiley
Trompowsky players do good business with 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 c5 4.d5. The question is, in the London version, has black gained or lost a tempo? It could be argued both ways. But if white plays f2-f3 in the London, black has saved a clear tempo.

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 c5 3.d5 Qa5+!? I am curious about this move.
  
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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #10 - 01/25/18 at 11:16:18
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RdC wrote on 01/25/18 at 10:05:19:
Scarblac wrote on 01/24/18 at 13:22:34:
it doesn't cover 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 g6 3.Nc3 which I see a lot recently.


Now there's a question. Why do players not start 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 if intending this system? I suppose that enables Black to avoid committing himself to a fianchetto.

After 2...d5 you get a regular Veresov. Not the thing most London players seek for. Most of the lines don't involve kingside fianchetto, and in regular london setup Nc3 may be misplaced.
As for 2.Bf4 c5, this appeared at very top (Carlsen-Aronian, Leuven 2017), where 3.d5 followed. This seems critical, but resulting positions are again, not London-type. Other 3rd moves for White seem inferior. So, 2...c5 looks like nice practical anti-London Smiley
  
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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #9 - 01/25/18 at 10:05:19
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Scarblac wrote on 01/24/18 at 13:22:34:
it doesn't cover 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 g6 3.Nc3 which I see a lot recently.


Now there's a question. Why do players not start 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 if intending this system? I suppose that enables Black to avoid committing himself to a fianchetto.

I'm wondering whether the accurate move order is 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 c5. If you are facing an old style London player, they are going to play 3. e3 or 3. c3. If they aren't, maybe defending a Bf4 Benoni or Benko after 3. d5 is preferable to having to defend against a 150 Attack or having to use a .. d5 system.
  
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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #8 - 01/24/18 at 21:17:39
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Scarblac wrote on 01/24/18 at 13:22:34:
I absolutely love Dembo's book, but it only covers the London with early Nf3 (and uses ...d6 lines), it doesn't cover 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 g6 3.Nc3 which I see a lot recently.


Not surprising as it only started to attract attention in the last few years.
  

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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #7 - 01/24/18 at 13:22:34
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I absolutely love Dembo's book, but it only covers the London with early Nf3 (and uses ...d6 lines), it doesn't cover 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 g6 3.Nc3 which I see a lot recently.
  
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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #6 - 01/24/18 at 08:41:50
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ErictheRed wrote on 01/24/18 at 02:54:25:
I liked Gallagher's old book a lot, and frankly I think that it would be fine for most of the lines and club players.  Most of the sub-2400 or so players who play the London and Colle, for instance, are not exactly lighting things up theoretically in my experience.  They're simply playing system moves to get an equal game and outplay their opponents from there. 

Of course it wouldn't hurt to supplement the book with an engine and a database, but I remember liking it a lot some years ago (I no longer have a copy). 


I was also going to mention this book as it is what i used to use when i played KI/Benoni set ups. Wasnt sure if it the lines would still stand up (i only remember using the g5 line against the tromp in it against a club mate in the club tournament one year!)


  

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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #5 - 01/24/18 at 06:44:53
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grandpatzer wrote on 01/23/18 at 18:15:48:
a follow up roughly with d6 - Nbd7, rather than an early d5 (after Nf6 and g6)?
                   



If you want to play this way, i.e. trying to avoid d5, then you will allow transposition into the Pirc.

This repertoire is fully covered in Kornev's practical repetoire, if you like the Pirc, however he does go for lines without the d6/Nf6 against some d4 special lines.

e.g. The Tromp causes you problems, but can be avoided by going 1. ..d6, again allowing the Pirc.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #4 - 01/24/18 at 02:54:25
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I liked Gallagher's old book a lot, and frankly I think that it would be fine for most of the lines and club players.  Most of the sub-2400 or so players who play the London and Colle, for instance, are not exactly lighting things up theoretically in my experience.  They're simply playing system moves to get an equal game and outplay their opponents from there. 

Of course it wouldn't hurt to supplement the book with an engine and a database, but I remember liking it a lot some years ago (I no longer have a copy).
  
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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #3 - 01/23/18 at 21:12:50
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  • Gallagher (1996) Beating the Anti-King's Indians, I thought was pretty good, and mostly stuck with ...d6. I would not be afraid to play his lines even after all this time, but would expect a few bruises here and there.
  • Dembo (2008) Fighting The Anti-King's Indians, I do not have, but Lou Mercuri recommended it, and wrote: "King’s Indian players are provided with a …d6 repertoire against the London, Torre, and kingside fianchetto, and can be satisfied with active play in all of the suggested lines." http://www.masschess.org/chess_horizons/book_review/book_review_details.aspx?boo... I do not remember Lou as a King's Indian player, but no doubt some of his students are.

  
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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #2 - 01/23/18 at 21:11:48
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How about Fighting the anti kings indians by Dembo?
  

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Re: Best book for meeting the anti King's Indians?
Reply #1 - 01/23/18 at 20:14:26
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I think the choice is rather small here.

The only book that comes to my mind is "A Practical Black Repertoire with Nf6, g6, d6 Vol. 1" from Chess Stars. However, even here the author recommends 2...Ne4 3.Bf4 d5 against the Trompovsky (and 3...c5 vs. 2.h4 and 2.Bh4). But the London and Torre are treated with ...g6 and ...d6.
  
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