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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) B06/B08 (Read 2886 times)
Fllg
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Re: B06/B08
Reply #13 - 01/29/18 at 17:52:14
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As far as I know the plan White chooses in this game (Kh2, Bxf5, Nc3-e2-g1-f3, Qe3-e1) is a big headache for Black:



It´s even worse with the bishop already on g7, since then he has to lose time rerouting it to e7.
  
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gewgaw
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Re: B06/B08
Reply #12 - 01/29/18 at 16:15:12
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Thanks for your great help!

"It seems what Norwood played himself was 1.e4 g6 2. d4 d6 3. Nc3 c6!? 4. f4 d5! 5. e5 h5 6. Nf3 Bg6 7. Be3 e6" - you probably meant 6. ...Bg4?

20 years ago, a very strong club member played this line regularly and won many games against equal strong opponents, so I've an idea about playing these positions, but I've no theory knowledge.
I'll check the games more closely and maybe we find an improvement:)
  

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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: B06/B08
Reply #11 - 01/29/18 at 14:48:32
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gewgaw wrote on 01/28/18 at 08:10:14:
4.f4 d5 5.e5 h5 and Black was okay - 20 years ago:)

I'm not so sure black was ever okay. Norwood (1994) Winning with the Modern gave as line a2:
1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 c6 4. f4 d5 5. e5 h5 6. Be3 Nh6 7. Nf3 Bg4 8. h3 Bxf3 9. Qxf3 h4 with the assessment Quote:
Whilst at the top grandmaster level Black's position may be difficult (but by no means unplayable) at lower levels it offers excellent practical chances.
He then gives the games Yudasin - McCarthy, New York Open 1991, and Ehlvest - Negulescu, Erevan 1988, both better for white.

Line a1 is 7...Qb6, Mestel - Murshed, British Ch Blackpool 1988, better for white.
Line b is 5...Nh6 Quote:
In my opinion, the best that can be hoped for with this move is to transpose back into lines with 5...h5.


It seems what Norwood played himself was 1.e4 g6 2. d4 d6 3. Nc3 c6!? 4. f4 d5! 5. e5 h5 6. Nf3 Bg4 7. Be3 e6 (his punctuation) with an improved Gurgenidze because the bishop does not belong on g7. Mannion - Norwood, Walsall Kipping Jubilee 1992. Edited:
Fixed the typo pointed out by gewgaw, 6...Bg6 for 6...Bg4.


Seirawan also used to use the 1...g6 2...d6 move order, but not AFAIK 3...c6. Here black has a choice against Be3/Qd2 lines: play ...Nf6 and delay ...Bg7, or play ...Bg7 and delay ...Nf6.
« Last Edit: 01/29/18 at 20:55:18 by an ordinary chessplayer »  
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gewgaw
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Re: B06/B08
Reply #10 - 01/29/18 at 11:56:21
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Why is 5. ...h5 under the cloud today? Can you give me a key game or line, pls?
  

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Fllg
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Re: B06/B08
Reply #9 - 01/28/18 at 08:44:11
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Indeed, the Gurgenidze System seems to be under a cloud nowadays and 5...h5?! should probably be replaced by 5...Nh6 here. Still a line I would not want to play with Black.
  
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gewgaw
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Re: B06/B08
Reply #8 - 01/28/18 at 08:10:14
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Fllg wrote on 01/27/18 at 23:12:43:
After 3...c6 I would be worried because of 4.f4 when neither 4...d5 nor 4...d6 are to my taste.


4.f4 d5 5.e5 h5 and Black was okay - 20 years ago:)
  

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Re: B06/B08
Reply #7 - 01/28/18 at 02:09:01
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Fllg wrote on 01/27/18 at 23:12:43:
After 3...c6 I would be worried because of 4.f4 when neither 4...d5 nor 4...d6 are to my taste.

True, but Black could just as well play 3...d6 to reach the same line (4.Be3 c6), while waiting for White's fourth move before deciding between 4...c6, 4...a6, 4...Nf6 and even 4...Nc6.

En passant, even a quirky move order like 1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 a6!? has been tried by lots of strong players, like Minasian, Gharamian, Mamedov, Svidler and Adhiban. A lot of those games were blitz and rapid though.
  

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Re: B06/B08
Reply #6 - 01/27/18 at 23:12:43
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After 3...c6 I would be worried because of 4.f4 when neither 4...d5 nor 4...d6 are to my taste.

Btw, why is this thread in the section about Flank Openings?
  
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gewgaw
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Re: B06/B08
Reply #5 - 01/27/18 at 22:54:19
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Well, it wasn't so interesting, because White made a weak move, but my impression is, that I'm under severe pressure after 10.e5

14. Qf2 0-0-0!?/?! Was a surprise for my opponent, who excluded this move completely 15.Bb6? Qb6 16.Qb6 Bd4 17.Qd4 Rd4 and the engine says about equal, but I can make progress little by little and won quite smoothly.

It's seems, that I've to play Ng8-f6 at some point in the opening and have to accept White's Be3-h6, but as I wrote earlier, I don't know nothing about this set-up.
  

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Re: B06/B08
Reply #4 - 01/27/18 at 22:11:37
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I'm also curious how your game continued. I did some clicking around, and it doesn't look too bad for Black after 14...Rd8!? (15 Bb6 Qxb6) followed by ...Rd7, ...Nf6 and ...0-0, sacrificing the e7 pawn if White doubles on the e-file in the meantime.
  
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Re: B06/B08
Reply #3 - 01/26/18 at 22:14:17
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@gewgaw - Your opponent played the 150 attack. This is covered from the white side in Summerscale A Killer Chess Opening Repertoire (Cadogan, 1999), and probably also in the new edition (Gambit, 2010).

Can you show some more moves from your game? I find this 10.e5 gambit that white made a little interesting.
  
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gewgaw
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Re: B06/B08
Reply #2 - 01/26/18 at 20:32:58
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Thanks, Stigma!

In my game, I postponed Ng8-f6 to avoid Bh6 - as I played this line the first time without any theory knowledge.
Wanna have a quick look:)

1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c6 4.Be3 d6 5.Qd2 b5 6.Bd3 Bb7 7.Nf3 Nd7 8.0-0 a6 9.Re1 Qc7 10.e5 and I was in trouble after 10. ...de5 11.de5 Ne5 12.Ne5 Be5 13.f4 Bg7 14.Qf2
Any thoughts?
  

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Re: B06/B08
Reply #1 - 01/26/18 at 20:13:04
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This is just the main line of the Modern against 1.e4. Or at least it used to be until the ...a6 lines ("Tiger's Modern") stole the limelight.

Both Moskalenko's book on the Pirc/Modern and The Modern Defence by Speelman and McDonald devoted a game to this line. There were also some brief lines in Pirc Alert! by Chernin and Alburt.
  

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B06/B08
01/26/18 at 19:12:17
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Hi there, I've a question.
I wanna play a set-up like this with Black:
1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c6 4.Be3 d6 5.Qd2 b5

I checked this position and was surprised, how many world class players play it with Black, but I don't know about a book or dvd to this set-up. My first thought was a dvd by Bologan, but he doesn't cover it, so I ask the forum for more information:)
  

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