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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Black Repertoire against flank openings (Read 5624 times)
Bibs
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #30 - 02/21/18 at 23:51:14
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There is much to be said for the Bish-Bash-Bosh approach of d6-e5-f5, Qe8-h5, f4, Bh3, Ng4 for the idle auto-pilot vegetarians who play some flanky stuff at lower levels. (See an old 'Not The BCM' for the veggie reference).

Agree, 1...d6 2...Bg4 is grim. Not to be touched. Bleurgh.

Learn Leningrad Dutch. Nc6-a5 or -e5, ...c6. or Malaniuk's Qe8. Or go for the ...d6/...Nf6/...Bf5 (wossat called again?).

Rock those Finns, their education system, their Northern lights, and their glorious ...d6 book. 'Kippis!'

(My level: middle-aged FM btw.)

  
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JEH
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #29 - 02/21/18 at 12:40:48
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Bibs wrote on 02/21/18 at 09:57:58:
Yrjölä and Tella: An Explosive Opening Repertoire for Black
remains the best of the 1...d6 texts, IMHO.


Agreed! It's still a primary reference for me, combined with a games database and my own repertoire database.

ORAP was one of my repertoires from the 80's and introduced me to meeting flank openings with e.g. 1. Nf3 d6 2. d4 Bg4 and 1. c4 with a d6/e5/f5 set up, the latter of which, via an old Soltis d6 book and Explosive Rep is still a core choice for me vs. flank opening comfort zone coasters.

I have also used a KID set up against flank openings. At my level (oscillating around 1900), I got some interesting feedback from one opponent who said he was happier meeting the KID set up than the Dutch one. Possibly players at my level "don't like it up 'em" with the Dutch so much, whereas stronger players would welcome Black's voluntary weakening.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #28 - 02/21/18 at 10:46:09
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I agree with Bibs - highly recommendable little book.

1 d4 d6 2 Nf3 Bg4 is kind of depressing for Black, though, IMO.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #27 - 02/21/18 at 09:57:58
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Yrjölä and Tella: An Explosive Opening Repertoire for Black
remains the best of the 1...d6 texts, IMHO.

Lots of stuff there. Old book yes, but packed with stuff. Particularly strong versus 1.d4 lines.

Pity, my copy got lost along the way....
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #26 - 02/21/18 at 04:34:20
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The three recent 1...d6 books mentioned by JEH in #17 are good. It's hard to recommend one of them specifically without knowing more about your needs. All three books have pdf samples available from the respective publishers, so you can peek and see for yourself which one interests you. Or use the search function here to find them discussed.

I have my own collection of 1...d6 variations as a backup and use the books for ideas rather than for a repertoire. For a second-string defense, I have way too many books on Pirc, Philidor, KID, and Old Indian. I have Yrjola/Tella and Zude/Hickl mentioned by JEH, so I can tell you about those. I will say that both these books cover the English line you mention. I'm not sure what Lakdawala recommends against the English.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #25 - 02/21/18 at 03:03:11
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I like to hear what d6 book everyone recommends. I like to play e5, d6, and maybe f5 set up against the English. I see there are a few d6 books out there, wonder what's best. Plus if it has some good recommendations vs it here flank openings that cannot hurt. Thanks.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #24 - 01/31/18 at 08:28:52
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Even if you get absolutely satisfied only with the main line in the Quailty Chess books (moves marked in bold), it's interesting and instructive to see how are handled the most important sidelines. Of course not to memorize them by heart, but play the moves in the board (at least once) to see typical ideas and plans than "maybe" in the main lines are not available to you (because the mail line contains also the better moves for you opponent) but they are key in you own games (which deviates from theory on move 6, 7 or 8, but usually the key ideas also apply).

If the book has lots of explanations (like Ntirlis' ones; I own his fantastics French book and d4-d5 manual; not the one on the open games, I have no opinion on that) then they are perfect for me. I gave Ntirlis as an example known but everybody here but there are lots of books with good commentaries by the author trying to explain things and plans (not only moves).

For me this is the best strategy to learn an opening. First, a video series, to get a whole idea of the subtilities and general plans in a visual and quick way. Then, a good book following mainly the bold moves (main lines), then playing exclusively this opening on internet blitz games and analyze the opening afterwards and what the book recomends against each idea. And finally play the sidelines moves in a board trying to understand why the sublines are sublines and not mainlines.

My 50 cents.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #23 - 01/31/18 at 06:28:18
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Sometimes a small book is also fine. Although the antoshin philidor and the old indian failed at my practical tests, the presentation in the german edition of the 200 pages book "Play 1. ..d6 Against Everything" by IM Erik Zude and GM Jörg Hickl is very good and probably enough for these openings.

But i had my problems with small books e. g. on the french. There always comes  a moment when you want to look into some more advanced book for some details. E. g. you start with the lines 3... b6 or 4... Qb6 and 5... Bd7 against the advance french. McDonald gives these two lines in "How to play against 1.e4". Then you look into Aagaard / Ntirlis or Watsons bible and find only 4... Nc6 based systems.

So for starters i am okay with the bold stuff  in quality chess books and also very much liked the "fast lane" marks in each chapter and "very fast lane" in the introduction of "Bologan's Black Weapons in the Open Games".
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #22 - 01/30/18 at 18:17:06
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kylemeister wrote on 01/30/18 at 17:54:39:
an e.g. sub-1800 player might not really want a ~500-page book on one opening.  Along these lines I'm sometimes reminded of a slogan Chess Informant used for their monographs back in the late 20th century:  "too much information = not enough information," and wonder if slimmer repertoire books might make a comeback.

Good point. Most opening books today contain a lot more analysis than club players need. I guess authors who reduce their coverage to avoid information overload risk reviewers complaining about all that was left out...

So you get formats trying to ride two horses simultaneously, like Chess Stars with their "Main Ideas" and "Step by Step", and Quality Chess producing quality doorstops but insisting you can get by fine by just learning the main lines in bold.
  

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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #21 - 01/30/18 at 18:01:28
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Stigma wrote on 01/30/18 at 17:33:56:
Are you sure about this? Sounds like the kind of extra service that's meant for those that have already bought the books and want them in different formats as well. But maybe that's what you meant; I can email him after I have bought them from Chessable?
                   


He charges 50 euros. I had the first two parts of his chessable books, but felt paying him extra for his work was quite reasonable (especially with the added value). It's a much better deal, obviously, if you haven't purchased the chessable reps.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #20 - 01/30/18 at 17:54:39
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Stigma wrote on 01/30/18 at 17:25:37:
And similarly; why play a gambit-based Scandinavian repertoire based on this old Keene book when you could use Smerdon's recent masterpiece instead!


Yes, but (aside from the real issue of the age of the Keene/Levy books), an e.g. sub-1800 player might not really want a ~500-page book on one opening.  Along these lines I'm sometimes reminded of a slogan Chess Informant used for their monographs back in the late 20th century:  "too much information = not enough information," and wonder if slimmer repertoire books might make a comeback.

Yeah, tangent ...
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #19 - 01/30/18 at 17:33:56
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Marcellus wrote on 01/30/18 at 16:01:19:
Stigma wrote on 01/30/18 at 03:51:32:
So far I only have Colovic's part on the QGD main lines myself. It looks like good material, but I don't really play the QGD as Black. It's just something I've thought of adding "someday, maybe...", and I bought it when I got a special offer on it.


You can email him at his personal website to obtain all three repertoires in pgn and cbh files, along with pdfs and short videos .

Are you sure about this? Sounds like the kind of extra service that's meant for those that have already bought the books and want them in different formats as well. But maybe that's what you meant; I can email him after I have bought them from Chessable?
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #18 - 01/30/18 at 17:25:37
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To bring this Opening Repertoire for the Attacking Player tangent a bit back on topic:

The repertoire against flank openings, at least in the 1994 edition that I must have had, was as far as I recall based on the Wade Defence (1.Nf3 d6 2.d4 Bg4) the Lukin Variation (1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 d6 3.Nf3 f5 4.g3 Nf6 5.d4 e4) and related English lines, including 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 d6 3.d4 exd4 4.Qxd4 Nc6 and 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 d6 3.Nf3 f5 4.g3 Nf6 with d3 instead of d4.

The thing is, all of this has been covered in far greater depth in more recent books. Yrjölä and Tella: An Explosive Opening Repertoire for Black has all of these lines, while Barsky: A Universal Weapon 1.d4 d6 has most of them; those that can naturally arise from a 1.d4 move order.

So there's really no reason today to go out of one's way to get hold of this old repertoire. I don't know what the earlier editions recommended against flank openings, but it's more than likely the same point holds. And similarly; why play a gambit-based Scandinavian repertoire based on this old Keene book when you could use Smerdon's recent masterpiece instead!
  

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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #17 - 01/30/18 at 17:22:49
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/30/18 at 16:06:12:
Keene and Levy (1984) An Opening Repertoire for the Attacking Player


I think this edition is  Pirc+Benko Gambit

[Shakes fist] This is the book that left me cursed with the Pirc in my repertoire to this day  Roll Eyes

However its options against the flank openings with a d6+Dutch style set up has served me well to take the fight to flank opening players looking for an easy life, especially after I moved to a universal d6. I use the Wade (offered in ORAP with 1. Nf3 d6. 2. d4 Bg4) sparingly though. The seed of a lot of these lines was in ORAP, but it still have 1. d4 Nf6 and the Benko.

The 'Universal d6' has now been covered in quite a few repertoire books of recent times (Explosive Repertoire, 1. ..d6 Move by Move, and recently a  book named Universal d6 repertoire)
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #16 - 01/30/18 at 16:58:13
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Ah yes ...seems it was in the '80s edition that they changed to the Chigorin (and kept it for the '90s one).   

I see an edition without "Club" in the title from New York 1977.  So maybe that word distinguished the British from the American edition.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #15 - 01/30/18 at 16:06:12
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I see three editions, note the different title for the first one, and for the third one Levy is listed as a contibutor by google books.
  • Levy and Keene (1976) An Opening Repertoire for the Attacking Club Player
  • Keene and Levy (1984) An Opening Repertoire for the Attacking Player
  • Keene (1994) An Opening Repertoire for the Attacking Player
All three are *apparently* available online, but if you click on a 1994 link and see Levy (no date) An Opening Repertoire for the Attacking Player, what are you actually getting? Probably best to order by ISBN.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #14 - 01/30/18 at 16:01:19
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Stigma wrote on 01/30/18 at 03:51:32:
So far I only have Colovic's part on the QGD main lines myself. It looks like good material, but I don't really play the QGD as Black. It's just something I've thought of adding "someday, maybe...", and I bought it when I got a special offer on it.


You can email him at his personal website to obtain all three repertoires in pgn and cbh files, along with pdfs and short videos .
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #13 - 01/30/18 at 06:59:02
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I searched again and again only found the index of the 1977 book.

Hard to find anything than the cover from the algebraic edition.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #12 - 01/30/18 at 05:02:18
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Stigma wrote on 01/30/18 at 04:13:14:
I no longer have this Keene/Levy book, but it was one of the first 10-15 chess books I owned. I could have sworn it was in algebraic notation and recommended the Chigorin against 1.d4. And a setup with 1...e5, 2...d6 and often 3...f5 against the English - this served me very well as a junior (unlike the Chigorin, which brought me disastrous results!), and I still wheel it out occasionally. A newer edition than the one you're thinking of perhaps?


Yes, you're thinking of an edition from the 1990s; the original edition (with the Benko) is from the '70s.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #11 - 01/30/18 at 04:13:14
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Karpfenkopf wrote on 01/29/18 at 08:17:31:
whatteaux wrote on 01/29/18 at 07:53:42:
[...]An Opening Repertoire for the Attacking Player (Keene & Levy - OK, a bit long in the tooth I admit, but good enough for us under-1800s).
Kaufman has the Grünfeld against 1.d4 and that Keene book should be based on the Benkö (+ it is written in descriptive notation  Roll Eyes).

I no longer have this Keene/Levy book, but it was one of the first 10-15 chess books I owned. I could have sworn it was in algebraic notation and recommended the Chigorin against 1.d4. And a setup with 1...e5, 2...d6 and often 3...f5 against the English - this served me very well as a junior (unlike the Chigorin, which brought me disastrous results!), and I still wheel it out occasionally. A newer edition than the one you're thinking of perhaps?
  

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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #10 - 01/30/18 at 03:51:32
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Karpfenkopf wrote on 01/29/18 at 19:22:22:
Thanks again for that very good hint. I made that order and browsed fast through the material. I don't think i need anything else on that topic by now.

You're welcome! So far I only have Colovic's part on the QGD main lines myself. It looks like good material, but I don't really play the QGD as Black. It's just something I've thought of adding "someday, maybe...", and I bought it when I got a special offer on it.

Karpfenkopf wrote on 01/29/18 at 19:22:22:
ErictheRed wrote on 01/29/18 at 17:42:42:
The original Kaufman repertoire book is probably relevant to you, the one that recommended the Semi-Slav. I don't remember much about his flank opening stuff, though. 

Thanks for that hint. I've only seen that newer Kaufman book before. This older one is sold out at my chess book seeler and others want to have 35 € for an used opening book... Not sure if it would be worth that money.

I have this original Kaufman book (The Chess Advantage in Black and White) and played parts of the White repertoire for a while. Couldn't remember what he gave against flank openings, so I looked it up: It's 1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 Bg4 against the Réti and KIA, 1...e6 and 2...d5 against the English (and taking on c4 if 1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.g3 dxc4), 1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 Bg4, and 1...e5 against both 1.b3 and 1.b4.

These still look like good recommendations. But they're all covered briefly in one short chapter, so I think most players would want to add other sources or a bit of research on their own.
« Last Edit: 01/30/18 at 05:41:29 by Stigma »  

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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #9 - 01/29/18 at 20:46:19
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I would assume theory doesn't develop too quickly in the lines you want to look at, so Palliser's book probably remains a good choice.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #8 - 01/29/18 at 19:22:22
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Stigma wrote on 01/28/18 at 12:51:46:
Apart from the mentioned sources, I thought of GM Colovic's Black repertoire based around the Queen's Gambit Declined. I believe his absolute main line there against 5.Bg5 is more or less the same as Ntirlis', but a lot of the other repertoire choices are different. He has a separate part covering flank openings, with move orders of course designed to fit with a QGD. His lines there look more solid than those offered by Mikhalevski and Delchev/Semkov, since Colovic meets 1.c4 with 1...e6 instead of 1...e5 and also sets up with ...d5, ...Nf6 and ...e6 against 1.Nf3 instead of putting the light-squared bishop on g4. So this is also stylistically very consistent with a solid QGD/French repertoire.

Thanks again for that very good hint. I made that order and browsed fast through the material. I don't think i need anything else on that topic by now.


ErictheRed wrote on 01/29/18 at 17:42:42:
The original Kaufman repertoire book is probably relevant to you, the one that recommended the Semi-Slav. I don't remember much about his flank opening stuff, though. 

Thanks for that hint. I've only seen that newer Kaufman book before. This older one is sold out at my chess book seeler and others want to have 35 € for an used opening book... Not sure if it would be worth that money.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #7 - 01/29/18 at 17:42:42
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The original Kaufman repertoire book is probably relevant to you, the one that recommended the Semi-Slav. I don't remember much about his flank opening stuff, though.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #6 - 01/29/18 at 08:17:31
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whatteaux wrote on 01/29/18 at 07:53:42:
Surely there are a number of broad-spectrum repertoire books that cover these rats & mice?  For example, Kaufman's repertoire covers these, as does An Opening Repertoire for the Attacking Player (Keene & Levy - OK, a bit long in the tooth I admit, but good enough for us under-1800s).
Kaufman has the Grünfeld against 1.d4 and that Keene book should be based on the Benkö (+ it is written in descriptive notation  Roll Eyes).

I don't think that these two books are useful for my purpose. They will maybe have transpositions to their mainlines which don't fit to my mainlines. So i would have to put in more work than when i am starting with a custom made solution for qgd players.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #5 - 01/29/18 at 07:53:42
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Karpfenkopf wrote on 01/29/18 at 06:36:39:
What's completely missing are the bird, 1. g3 without transposition to anything already included, 1. b3, 1. b4 and maybe some 1. Nc3 suff.


Surely there are a number of broad-spectrum repertoire books that cover these rats & mice?  For example, Kaufman's repertoire covers these, as does An Opening Repertoire for the Attacking Player (Keene & Levy - OK, a bit long in the tooth I admit, but good enough for us under-1800s).
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #4 - 01/29/18 at 06:36:39
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Thank's for your comments.

RdC wrote on 01/28/18 at 12:22:23:
If you base your defence on playing d5 and e6, you have many of the potential lines from Flank Openings already covered, namely defending the Kings Indian Attack in its anti-French form and defending a Catalan.

Yes, both of them are well covered in my two books and my subscriptions.


What's completely missing are the bird, 1. g3 without transposition to anything already included, 1. b3, 1. b4 and maybe some 1. Nc3 suff. One former teammate played that move. I'm not sure if that always transposes to a french or verresov. The mentioned stuff by GM Colvic could fit, i will take a look.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #3 - 01/28/18 at 12:51:46
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Apart from the mentioned sources, I thought of GM Colovic's Black repertoire based around the Queen's Gambit Declined. I believe his absolute main line there against 5.Bg5 is more or less the same as Ntirlis', but a lot of the other repertoire choices are different. He has a separate part covering flank openings, with move orders of course designed to fit with a QGD. His lines there look more solid than those offered by Mikhalevski and Delchev/Semkov, since Colovic meets 1.c4 with 1...e6 instead of 1...e5 and also sets up with ...d5, ...Nf6 and ...e6 against 1.Nf3 instead of putting the light-squared bishop on g4. So this is also stylistically very consistent with a solid QGD/French repertoire.

I don't want to link directly to this product, since the platform might be considered a direct competitor to ChessPublishing (at least they could aspire to be some day when they have a lot more content). But you can easily find it by googling.
  

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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #2 - 01/28/18 at 12:22:23
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Karpfenkopf wrote on 01/28/18 at 06:40:40:
Hello,
I am using serious stuff against 1. e4 ("Playing the french" by Aagard / Ntirlis") and 1. d4 / 1. c4 / 1. Nf3 ("Playing 1. d4 d5" by Ntirlis) as cornerstone plus my three section chesspublishing.com subscription ( French, 1.d4 d5, d-pawn specials).


If you base your defence on playing d5 and e6, you have many of the potential lines from Flank Openings already covered, namely defending the Kings Indian Attack in its anti-French form and defending a Catalan.
  
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Re: Black Repertoire against flank openings
Reply #1 - 01/28/18 at 10:33:22
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Have a look at Attacking the English/Reti (Chess Stars, 2016) by Delchev & Semko.  They propose a similar repertoire to Mikhalevski but more digestibly (is that a word?).  Each chapter has "Main Ideas", "Step by Step" and "Annotated Games" sections - a common format for Chess Stars books.
  
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Karpfenkopf
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Joined: 01/23/18
Black Repertoire against flank openings
01/28/18 at 06:40:40
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Hello,
I am using serious stuff against 1. e4 ("Playing the french" by Aagard / Ntirlis") and 1. d4 / 1. c4 / 1. Nf3 ("Playing 1. d4 d5" by Ntirlis) as cornerstone plus my three section chesspublishing.com subscription ( French, 1.d4 d5, d-pawn specials).

Now i'm looking for a cornerstone against everything else. Maybe even the 1. c4 / 1. Nf3 "for starters" stuff in the book mentioned above coult be needed to get more details?!

Looking for books on that topics i find "Grandmaster Repertoire: Beating Minor Openings" by Victor Mikhalevski and the 2007 book "Beating unusual chess openings" by Richard Palliser. One is maybe too advanced for me with 1800 Elo the other one is rather outdated.

Of course i could subscribe to that flank openings section on chesspublishing und hopefully find some guide there to build up something on my own?
  
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