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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Best try for White vs Petrov? (Read 6419 times)
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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #15 - 02/28/18 at 11:31:39
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Wow this got busy, thanks very much for your input guys.
  

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bragesjo
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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #14 - 02/27/18 at 16:21:34
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I add one last thing. Shaws line vs b6 system seems to be a bluff. He only covers 11 .. Nf6 and according to computer this is a mistake that gives white an edge! Nf6 is not even a top 5 computer move!
« Last Edit: 02/28/18 at 09:32:41 by bragesjo »  
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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #13 - 02/27/18 at 16:07:07
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Another possibility is addressed in the latest CBM:  "The trendy [1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.d4 d5 6.Bd3 Nc6 7.0-0 Be7] 8.Nbd2 allows White to play for a win with minimal risk. The article by [German IM] Dennis Breder offers a lot of material that goes far beyond known theory."
  
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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #12 - 02/27/18 at 15:55:44
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MNb wrote on 02/27/18 at 14:44:50:

That article inspired me to pick up that line in practice. I scored a very easy win with it this season. Some fascinating analysis of it can be found at
http://schaken-brabo.blogspot.com/2017/11/records.html
and
http://chess-brabo.blogspot.com/2017/11/the-butterfly-effect.html
Before I played the "old" mainline which isn't completely dead either. There are still some ideas which are worth to try see http://chess-brabo.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-sequence-part-2.html
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #11 - 02/27/18 at 15:40:28
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I suggest that whites extra tempo over Kleijn-Van Delft is importent and changes the evaluation. White is simply better.
White gets othe option like 18 Kb1  since the f4 Bishop is not hanging.
Every recent repertoaur book written for white suggest Be3 and not Bf4 but they never say exactly why...
  
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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #10 - 02/27/18 at 15:23:06
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Then play is similar to Kleijn-Van Delft.
Sorry that I didn't make it clear at once. This piece sac must decide which move is the better one, 7.Bf4 or 7.Be3. So anyone wanting to play 5.Nc3 as White will have to systematically compare all possible lines to find out which square is best for the queen's bishop. The subtle differences may be deeply hidden.
  

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bragesjo
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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #9 - 02/27/18 at 15:15:24
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bragesjo wrote on 02/27/18 at 14:58:00:
About  Philippe,C (2422) - Koch,J (2476) [C42]
TCh-FRA Top 12 2011 Mulhouse FRA (3.5), 28.05.2011


What happens if white simply plays 12 Ra1 instead of Kxa2?
Is a tempo up on Kleijn,C - Van Delft,M [C42]
NEDchT 0708 Meesterklasse KNSB (7), 2008?
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #8 - 02/27/18 at 14:58:00
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About  Philippe,C (2422) - Koch,J (2476) [C42]
TCh-FRA Top 12 2011 Mulhouse FRA (3.5), 28.05.2011

Shaw does not even mention Bxa2. From my memory convential theory suggested that Bxa2 is only possible if the Bishop is at f4 and unplayble if the Bishop is at e3. However I need to computer check  the variation.
  
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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #7 - 02/27/18 at 14:44:50
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OK, let me provide a few model games then.


Philippe,C (2422) - Koch,J (2476) [C42]
TCh-FRA Top 12 2011 Mulhouse FRA (3.5), 28.05.2011



0-1

Kleijn,C - Van Delft,M [C42]
NEDchT 0708 Meesterklasse KNSB (7), 2008



½-½




Rivas Romero,G (2377) - Castro Salguero,R (2354)
PER/C15/final (PER) ICCF, 15.06.2009



½-½

If 5.Nc3 is most critical then the Petrov is a forced draw, so it seems to me.
Perhaps this page offers some hope.

https://www.chess.com/article/view/making-a-plus-in-the-petroff

  

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bragesjo
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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #6 - 02/27/18 at 14:32:40
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I actually own the book, I forgot what it went vs Petroff. My plan was to read the book when the after the  reading the very delayed sicilian part who has no been reased yet nad no one knows when it comes out. While I only played Petroff as black is corr games I can only comment  on the lines I played in these games where I played the casle short and early b6 line.  The b6 model game is Dominquez Perez -So 2014 at move 11 Shaw correctly writes that whites position is more easy to handle in practical play but it is unclear if white has any objective advantage and since there is no direct contact black has many moves to choose from.  He only looks at Nf6 as played in the game where the basic Petroff move I used  quates the game and instead suggests 11 .. Nc5 12 Bf5 Re8 as some sort of improvment. I have no engine at the moment so I have no idea who is right.

  
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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #5 - 02/27/18 at 13:09:40
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bragesjo wrote on 02/27/18 at 11:59:10:
I dont know any good model games. Theory is developing very fast in 5 Nc3 line. First black often delayed castling or castled long but in cutting edge theory blacks castles short very early and plays and early b6 instead of the old Be6 system. Best source might by Chesspub subscription.

Hi bragesjo, sounds like you are up to date on this line. Have you used John Shaw's coverage of 5.Nc3 in his Play 1.e4 book? How well would you say that chapter holds up?
  

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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #4 - 02/27/18 at 11:59:10
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I dont know any good model games. Theory is developing very fast in 5 Nc3 line. First black often delayed castling or castled long but in cutting edge theory blacks castles short very early and plays and early b6 instead of the old Be6 system. Best source might by Chesspub subscription.

Cochrane Gambit might work in blitz or if the opponet does not know concrete theory but I have met in 2 times in corr and I won both games very easy, I simply followed a very basic Petroff books  (Move by Move) recomendation that I bought for use in corr chess and not for over the board games and white never got enough for the piece.
  
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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #3 - 02/26/18 at 13:54:26
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I think that would depend on how you define "best". Best for a blitz game or against a not well prepared black player may be Cochrane. Best for trying to win with minimal risk may be Classical main line (3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.d4). Most critical theory wise may be 5.Nc3 after all.
  

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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #2 - 02/26/18 at 13:28:49
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Thank you, any particularly good model games you could point to?
Best,
  

Give no quarter. Expect none in return. Punish mistakes ruthlessly. Seek simplicity when ahead. Seek complications when behind. Respect every opponent. Fear none.
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bragesjo
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Re: Best try for White vs Petrov?
Reply #1 - 02/26/18 at 11:32:19
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I dont think there is a line the gives white a theoretical advantage vs Petroff. The line you mentioned is one of the most critical lines.

I have played in 3 thematical Petroff corr tournamnets at ICCF, reaching 3rd place in my 1st, I won my 2nd and got 2nd place in my 3rd.
I met varios lines with black and my only lose in these 3 events combined was  in the 1st event and in the line you mentioned. I did however met it in one than 1 game. Several other lines leeds to drawish endgames and others to equal simplified middlegames. With white I went my own way by transposing to Spanish Four Knights in every game but it gives no theoretical advantage vs correct play only practical chanses.
  
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