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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna (Read 5742 times)
FreeRepublic
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #34 - 05/08/19 at 14:57:47
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 03/20/18 at 01:46:53:
Lalic (2000) Queen's Gambit Declined: Bg5 Systems

This is what I meant to refer to!
  
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #33 - 05/08/19 at 14:56:02
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mn wrote on 03/19/18 at 19:28:59:
Pert did.


I enjoyed that book and still go back to it from time to time. It's older and less specialized than the other titles in this thread, but is a good overview with good games and commentary.
  
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mn
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #32 - 05/03/19 at 17:39:43
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There's a modern-chess repertoire on the Vienna as well as the Gustafsson c24 stuff
  
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #31 - 05/03/19 at 16:11:15
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Many of the comments on this forum ask/answer the question:  Is this a complete repertoire book? The answer is no, but that is not unique. I have Barsky's book on the Ragozin. He mentions the Vienna. That's it - no analysis, no comments. I don't know about the Cornette or Pert books.

Modern-Chess.com has an ebook on the Ragozin. It does not contain the Vienna per se, though it does overlap a little in Qa4ch lines. The same author has an e-book on the Nimzo to round out his suggested repertoire.

I guess my point is that no one has a complete repertoire book that contains the Vienna. If you have a source on the Ragozin and you have Panczyk/Ilczuk book on the Vienna, that's a good start.
  
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mn
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #30 - 08/03/18 at 20:25:06
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Interestingly, they also disagree on the assessment of this position (from the 6...b5 line). They both give the same line after 14 0-0-0 (?! - P/I) as being okay for Black, but P/I think White can fight for an advantage with 14 Rd1 or 14 a4, without further analysis. This could be an interesting spot to investigate, as it's not covered in either book.
  
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mn
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #29 - 08/03/18 at 20:03:22
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I've just downloaded the e-book version of this book. Comparing Pert and P/I's analysis, the latter seem to recommend 15 Qf3 for White (in their Game 43, Pert's line A), when they mention Pert's suggestion 15...Ke7 as "possible", without giving it an evaluation. Following the course of the main game, Pert's recommendation of 17...Nd4 is again mentioned, and a game is quoted as leading to a draw, but without further assessment.

I guess to some degree this can be attributed to the difference between a general reference work and a repertoire book. Pert, advocating for the Black side, kind of has to be more conclusive in saying "Yes, this equalizes for Black!". Also, from my brief glance, Pert's ...Nc6 novelty doesn't appear to be mentioned. 

Anyway, before I did anything else, I wanted to see if the lines from "Playing the Ragozin" I'm interested in are in any trouble, before I properly read the book, as it were.
  
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #28 - 07/09/18 at 08:30:24
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Some more information on this book. Please note that I‘m a weak expert player without much experience in the Vienna!

The book seems to be good but maybe does not reach the standards that QualityChess or ChessStars have set.
Looking at Pert‘s line (Pelletier-Meier 2011, Pert p119/120) P/I stops after 14Nxc3 claiming „a slightly favourable ending for White“. While Pert gives more than a full page of dense analysis with different possiblities for Black claiming (unclear) equality on move 21. Maybe that‘s unfair to P/I because Pert choses an obscure sideline for his black rep while P/I covers everything for both sides. But P/I (without bibliography!) could have known Pert‘s analysis. At least, black players following Pert have nothing to fear.
The core of P/I‘s analysis carries games up to 2014. There are some newer ones, probably added later to an existing manuscript!? The most recent game I found was Beliavsky-Vitiugov, Heraklion oct2017. There is a remarkable use of correspondence games!
There‘s a lot of verbal explanations: not only if positions/moves are good or bad, but also if they lead to forced draws, if they are chosen often or seldom, if they are easy or difficult to play ...
Except for the disadvantage that the way to the Vienna (4th and 5th moves alternatives) is not discussed, this book seems to be a good or even very good tool for 1800 to 2300 players to get into this system. I cannot judge ( at least not so far) if it’s good for higher levels...

tracke  Smiley
  
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mn
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #27 - 07/09/18 at 07:39:43
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tracke wrote on 07/09/18 at 07:02:38:
As I already stated in posts #19 and #23 :

It‘s about the position after 4 Nf3 Bb4 5 Bg5 dxc4 or, more often used in the book, 4 Nf3 dxc4 5 Bg5 Bb4.

The Pros and Cons of 4... dxc4 / 4... Bb4 and 5th move alternatives are not discussed.
In case of 4 Nf3 dxc4 5 e4 Bb4 only 6 Bg5 is covered.

tracke  Smiley


Oh, my bad, I completely missed Post 19 where this was very clearly spelled out  Embarrassed

Thanks for the reply.
  
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #26 - 07/09/18 at 07:02:38
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As I already stated in posts #19 and #23 :

It‘s about the position after 4 Nf3 Bb4 5 Bg5 dxc4 or, more often used in the book, 4 Nf3 dxc4 5 Bg5 Bb4.

The Pros and Cons of 4... dxc4 / 4... Bb4 and 5th move alternatives are not discussed.
In case of 4 Nf3 dxc4 5 e4 Bb4 only 6 Bg5 is covered.

tracke  Smiley
  
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #25 - 07/09/18 at 00:15:20
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Okay, but is the starting position of the book after 4...dc4 5 e4 Bb4 6 Bg5, or after 4...dc4 (i.e. are 6 Bxc4; 5 e3; 5 Qa4+, etc. covered?). Sorry if you answered this already and I misunderstood.
  
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #24 - 07/08/18 at 20:04:37
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Again when you look at the book the move is specifically 4...dxc4. At least in the couple of chapters I've looked through and the index of variations.
  
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tracke
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #23 - 07/07/18 at 18:28:40
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IsaVulpes wrote on 07/07/18 at 11:58:08:
tracke wrote on 07/07/18 at 10:22:22:
Nothing about 4 ... dxc4 5 e4 Bb4 6 Bxc4 .

What is this chapter about, then?
tracke wrote on 06/23/18 at 14:47:29:
163 6 Bxc4 - Deviations

Given its name and rather sizeable length (of 40 pages!), I figured they must be talking about the gambit line?!


That‘s chapter 6 dealing with (4 Nf3 dxc4 5 Bg5 Bb4 6 e4 c5) 7.Bc4
and all deviations not leading to chapters 1-5 .

(A typo/omission but not my mistake but one of Everyman or Niggemann)

tracke  Smiley
« Last Edit: 07/07/18 at 20:02:40 by tracke »  
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mn
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #22 - 07/07/18 at 18:27:12
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IsaVulpes wrote on 07/07/18 at 11:58:08:
tracke wrote on 07/07/18 at 10:22:22:
Nothing about 4 ... dxc4 5 e4 Bb4 6 Bxc4 .

What is this chapter about, then?
tracke wrote on 06/23/18 at 14:47:29:
163 6 Bxc4 - Deviations

Given its name and rather sizeable length (of 40 pages!), I figured they must be talking about the gambit line?!


I thought so too at first, but in fact I don't think it's referring to "6.Bxc4" - it's Chapter #6 and talks about deviations after 7. Bxc4 (I assume).
  
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #21 - 07/07/18 at 13:29:47
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Almost every game in the index of variations has 4...dxc4. I haven't seen any discussion of 5.. dxc4 in the book so far. I haven't got that far Isa, I'll have a look later...yardwork.
  
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Re: Panczyk/Ilczuk on QGD Vienna
Reply #20 - 07/07/18 at 11:58:08
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tracke wrote on 07/07/18 at 10:22:22:
Nothing about 4 ... dxc4 5 e4 Bb4 6 Bxc4 .

What is this chapter about, then?
tracke wrote on 06/23/18 at 14:47:29:
163 6 Bxc4 - Deviations

Given its name and rather sizeable length (of 40 pages!), I figured they must be talking about the gambit line?!
  
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