fjd wrote on 08/03/18 at 20:25:06:


Agreed. SF14 tends towards SF0 but in truth the position is unclear after
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Bb4 5. Bg5 dc4 6. e4 b5 7. e5 h6 8. Bh4 g5 9. Ng5 hg5 10. Bg5 Nbd7 11. Qf3 Rb8 12. ef6 Bb7 13. Qg3 a6.
The authors also consider 7a4 (but I haven't checked it out yet).

One thing I like about the Vienna/Ragozin complex is that even Black "sidelines" seem viable.

fjd wrote on 08/03/18 at 20:03:22:


I have the P/I book on the Vienna, but may buy Pert's book (or Cornette's) primarily for coverage of non-Vienna lines such as 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 Bb4 5.cxd exd 6Bg5. With Pert, I will also get his take on particular Vienna lines. With Cornette, I would also receive coverage of pure Ragozin lines.

Just for the record P/I take 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 Bb4 5. Bg5 dxc4 6. e4 c5 7. Bc4 cd4 8. Nd4 Bxc3ch as their main line. They cover several 8th move alternatives for black, focusing on 8...Qa5.

Pert chose 8...Qa5. I assume he did so because he thought it was good, and perhaps to get a little off the beaten path.

I haven't taken a good look at 6...b5 ideas. Obviously, it is very complex. It seems to be a sideline that just never goes away. 6...h6 might be O.K. too.

This book is not a repertoire book. It does not purport to tell you everything you need to know to answer 1d4. It is a very thorough book on the QGD Vienna. The word "exhaustive" comes to mind, though I don't know if that is possible.

As a complete book on the Vienna, it is useful to players of the white pieces because it covers ALL Vienna lines. It is also good for players of the black pieces because it contains alternative lines that black can consider, while still covering white's responses in those lines. If you start with one line, you can change to another and the book has you covered.

The book is available electronically from both Everyman and Forward Chess. The Forward Chess website also provides the Table of Contents that you can peruse.

Depending on your interests, you might also want to buy related books by Pert and Cornette. Forward Chess has both books in electronic form.

Here is a list of games from this book (Kindle edition):

Index of Complete Games
Loc 5820

Game 1 E.Bogoljubow-H.Wolf Karlsbad 1923
Loc 71
Game 2 A.Alekhine-H.Woher
Loc 112
Game 3 F.Apsenieks-E.Grünfeld
Loc 151
Game 4 C.Rosenberger-E.Grünfeld
Loc 164
Game 5 V.Chekhover-Em.Lasker
Loc 184
Game 6 A.Alekhine & H.Frank-E.Bogoljubow & Pfaffenroth
Loc 201
Game 7 M.Bartosek-L.Pachman
Loc 213
Game 8 C.Horvath-R.Ekström
Loc 484
Game 9 P.Giulian-Z.Gyimesi
Loc 519 
Game 10 H.Stefansson-M.Petursson
loc 558
Game 11 R.Jankowicz-J.Trusewicz
loc 600
Game 12 R.Pogorelov-A.Kolev
Loc 630
Game 13 H.Grünberg-Cs.Horvath
Loc 651
Game 14 B.Bachmann-Sharf
Loc 667
Game 15 J.Flyckt Olsen-N.Kalinichenko
Loc 704
Game 16 Li Wenliang-M.Richter
Loc 953
Game 17 R.Ponomariov-V.Ivanchuk
Loc 993
Game 18 R.Palliser-P.Wells
Loc 1044
Game 19 A.Dreev-S.Kishnev
Loc 1073
Game 20 A.Greenfeld-J.Piket
Loc 1114
Game 21 T.Pranitchi-J.Solar
Loc 1144
Game 22 A.Grischuk-V.Kramnik
Loc 1187
Game 23 G.Gajewski-R.Wojtaszek
Loc 1517
Game 24 L.D.Nisipeanu-Z.Gyimesi
Loc 1526
Game 25 I.Khenkin-I.Khairullin
Loc 1557
Game 26 D.Navara-K.Lahno
Loc 1649
Game 27 K.Sakaev-Se.Ivanov
Loc 1726
Game 28 V.Kramnik-L.Van Wely
Loc 1762
Game 29 D.Svetushkin-S.Marjanovic
Loc 1839
Game 30 J.Piket-V.Topalov
Loc 1871
Game 31 K.Lahno-A.Kosteniuk
Loc 2170
Game 32 A.Rustemov-M.Neubauer
Loc 2214
Game 33 R.Kempinski-T.Markowski
Loc 2261
Game 34 M.Notkin-Y.Yakovich
Loc 2289
Game 35 R.Akesson-K.Landa
Loc 2345
Game 36 J.Zidu-R.Cortes Olivares
Loc 2620
Game 37 A.Dreev-I.Kharlov
Loc 2668
Game 38 V.Malakhatko-I.Khenkin
Loc 2736
Game 39 F.Patocka-G.Flitsch
Loc 2765
Game 40 A.Karpov-L.Aronian
Loc 2804
Game 41 S.Prayitno-M.Paragua
Loc 3177
Game 42 V.Kramnik-V.Anand
Loc 3203
Game 43 V.Kramnik-V.Anand
Loc 3274
Game 44 S.Kloster-M.Vecek
Loc 3346
Game 45 Ding Liren-W.So
Loc 3394
Game 46 T.Radjabov-L.Aronian
Loc 3412
Game 47 Le Quang Liem-Y.Shulman
Loc 3453
Game 48 Wang Yue-B.Gelfand
Loc 3492
Game 49 F.Behrhorst-F.Bulthaupt
Loc 3789
Game 50 A.Kupsys-A.Lanc
Loc 3812
Game 51 B.Machul-P.Walczak
Loc 3843 
Game 52 G.Kamsky-L.Van Wely
Loc 3880
Game 53 I.Khmelniker-I.Khenkin
Loc 3921
Game 54 H.Adelseck-E.Calhau
Loc 3955
Game 55 M.Vachier Lagrave-L.Aronian
Loc 4346 
Game 56 V.Kunin-A.Arustamian
Loc 4368
Game 57 N.Zhukova-A.Stefanova
Loc 4427
Game 58 Z.Ribli-P.Acs
Loc 4474 
Game 59 V.Malakhatko-C.Bauer
Loc 4516
Game 60 V.Babula-M.Thesing
Loc 4842
Game 61 L.Fressinet-S.Movsesian
Loc 4913
Game 62 Z.Kozul-Ki.Georgiev
Loc 4952
Game 63 T.Polak-S.Movsesian
Loc 5021
Game 64 A.Dutra Neto-F.Hoffmann
Loc 5064
Game 65 R.Kempinski-M.Cornette
Loc 5262. 
Game 66 P.Dias-S.Sulskis
Loc 5318
Game 67 P.Eljanov-J.Gustafsson
Loc 5554
Game 68 A.Shchekachev-S.Feller
Loc 5616
Game 69 Zhao Jun-Xiu Deshun
Loc 5708
Game 70 P.Lasinskas-A.Kolev
Loc 5760
Game 71 L.M.Christiansen-Z.Ribli
Loc 5789

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 03/20/18 at 01:46:53:

This is what I meant to refer to!

There's a modern-chess repertoire on the Vienna as well as the Gustafsson c24 stuff

Interestingly, they also disagree on the assessment of this position (from the 6...b5 line). They both give the same line after 14 0-0-0 (?! - P/I) as being okay for Black, but P/I think White can fight for an advantage with 14 Rd1 or 14 a4, without further analysis. This could be an interesting spot to investigate, as it's not covered in either book.

Some more information on this book. Please note that I‘m a weak expert player without much experience in the Vienna! 

The book seems to be good but maybe does not reach the standards that QualityChess or ChessStars have set. 
Looking at Pert‘s line (Pelletier-Meier 2011, Pert p119/120) P/I stops after 14Nxc3 claiming „a slightly favourable ending for White“. While Pert gives more than a full page of dense analysis with different possiblities for Black claiming (unclear) equality on move 21. Maybe that‘s unfair to P/I because Pert choses an obscure sideline for his black rep while P/I covers everything for both sides. But P/I (without bibliography!) could have known Pert‘s analysis. At least, black players following Pert have nothing to fear.
The core of P/I‘s analysis carries games up to 2014. There are some newer ones, probably added later to an existing manuscript!? The most recent game I found was Beliavsky-Vitiugov, Heraklion oct2017. There is a remarkable use of correspondence games!
There‘s a lot of verbal explanations: not only if positions/moves are good or bad, but also if they lead to forced draws, if they are chosen often or seldom, if they are easy or difficult to play ...
Except for the disadvantage that the way to the Vienna (4th and 5th moves alternatives) is not discussed, this book seems to be a good or even very good tool for 1800 to 2300 players to get into this system. I cannot judge ( at least not so far) if it’s good for higher levels...

tracke 

As I already stated in posts #19 and #23 :

It‘s about the position after 4 Nf3 Bb4 5 Bg5 dxc4 or, more often used in the book, 4 Nf3 dxc4 5 Bg5 Bb4.

The Pros and Cons of 4... dxc4 / 4... Bb4 and 5th move alternatives are not discussed.
In case of 4 Nf3 dxc4 5 e4 Bb4 only 6 Bg5 is covered.

tracke 

Again when you look at the book the move is specifically 4...dxc4. At least in the couple of chapters I've looked through and the index of variations.

IsaVulpes wrote on 07/07/18 at 11:58:08:


I thought so too at first, but in fact I don't think it's referring to "6.Bxc4" - it's Chapter #6 and talks about deviations after 7. Bxc4 (I assume).

tracke wrote on 07/07/18 at 10:22:22:

What is this chapter about, then?
tracke wrote on 06/23/18 at 14:47:29:

Given its name and rather sizeable length (of 40 pages!), I figured they must be talking about the gambit line?!

Generally the idea seems to be 4..dc4.

The book does cover e3 and some other tries instead of e4.

IsaVulpes wrote on 03/23/18 at 01:03:57:


To be fair, Pert only had to cover his ...Qa5 recommendation, and got to ignore the main body of theory with ...Bxc3+ etc.

Me saying 5.e3 is inaccurate did not stop Grischuk from playing this QGA line (by transposition) against Kramnik.

The cover is vey nice !

I thought with Pert + Cornette combo, we have covered in this Ragozin-Vienna complex, but who knows... maybe this is more an introductory-type of book.

If only there were an Everyman editor who browsed these forums on occasion...   

Stigma wrote on 03/19/18 at 19:15:43:
After 5.e4 Bb4 I don't see a good move other than 6.Bg5, which is definitely a Vienna Variation. And I think 5.e3 is a not very accurate QGA from white's point of view. So you will have to explain what critical lines you have in mind.

I agree with you that I have not seen "complete" coverage of 4...dxc4 anywhere.

Lalic (2000) Queen's Gambit Declined: Bg5 Systems in his chapter 7 on the Vienna Variation has the following: 

• Game 53 4...Bb4 5.Bg5 h6 6. Bh4 dxc4 
• Game 54 4...dxc4 5.Bg5 Bb4 6. Qa4+ (and extremely brief coverage of 6.a3 and 6.e3 in a note) 
• Games 55-67 4...dxc4 5.e4 Bb4 6.Bg5 

Other than that, in the Introduction he has a game Eslon-Tal, Seville 1992, with 4...dxc4 5.Qa4+. In this game white did not play Bc1-g5 at all. It's not unique in that respect. Despite the title, Lalic has a whole chapter on Bc1-f4.

4 Symbols
5 Introduction
Part 1: Exchange Variations
16 1 The Alatortsev Variation: 3...Le7 4 cxd5 exd5 5 Lf4
27 2 The Exchange Variation: White develops his Knight on e2
35 3 The Exchange Variation: White plays Sf3
Part 2: White plays an early Sf3
52 4 An Anti-Lf4 line
57 5 The Ragozin Defence
82 6 The Manhattan Variation
101 7 The Vienna Variation
Part 3: 4 Lg5: Deviations for both sides
123 8 The Dutch/Peruvian Gambit
129 9 The Cambridge Springs
149 10 White plays e3 and Tc1 without Sf3
155 11 White plays Sf3 and Tc1 without e3
Part 4: Main lines
162 12 Anti-Tartakower: Lxf6
169 13 The Lasker Defence
177 14 The Tartakower Variation: Rare lines
185 15 The Tartakower Variation: Main line
198 16 The Extended Fianchetto
202 17 The Rubinstein Variation
207 Index of variations

Table of contents lifted from here: http://www.schachversand.de/d/detail/buecher/5271.html

IsaVulpes wrote on 03/19/18 at 19:06:05:

I agree. White can avoid the entire book and still play critical lines, by meeting 4...dxc4 with 5.e4 or 5.e3 and 4...Bb4 with 5.cxd5.

Though many players now reach the Vienna mostly from the Ragozin (4...Bb4) move order, so perhaps the thinking is there's already enough recent coverage of the rest of the Ragozin for the Black player to consult. But then it would indeed be nice to get complete coverage of the entire Vienna, i.e. everything after 4...dxc4. AFAIK no such book has ever been published.

Btw. did Pert and/or Cornette cover this transposition to the Vienna in their respective Ragozin books?

Interesting, I'm not sure there has been much around book wise specifically for the QGD Vienna before, so I think there is a gap in the market (Cyrus Lakdawala missed a shot here  )

Everyman has announced a new book for Summer 2018:

Queen´s Gambit Declined : Vienna   by Panczyk/Ilczuk

~400 pages , 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Nf3 Bb4 5 Bg5 dc4

Nice cover: https://www.everymanchess.com/queens-gambit-declined-vienna

In the past I really liked most books of Panczyk/Ilczuk:
always good pieces of serious work and very useful.
Looking forward this, too.

tracke