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A ´new´ kingside fianchetto for Black in the Ruy!? (Read 7894 times)

tipau Full Member Offline I Like ChessPublishing! Posts: 172 Location: London, England Joined: 01/25/08	Re: A ´new´ kingside fianchetto for Black in the Ruy!? Reply #7 - 07/22/18 at 07:37:18	Post Tools	Print Post
	Stigma wrote on 07/21/18 at 16:51:31: tipau wrote on 05/03/18 at 08:08:04: Interesting line. I play the Cozio quite a bit and find the lines 3...Nge7 4.c3! (4.Nc3 Ng6! 5.d4 exd4 6.Nxd4 Nxd4 7.Qxd4 c6! I find quite playable) and 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nge7 5.c3! very challenging for Black. Maybe this would avoid direct transpositions to those lines. A critical line is likely to start with 3...a6 4.Ba4 b5 5.Bb3 g6 6.c3 Bg7 7.d4 exd4 8.cxd4. I thought these lines with c3 and d4 were what Black was aiming for in the Cozio, Aronian and Fianchetto variations, and even this new 5...g6 move order - the problem then being which more direct White tries to allow? If you don't like the positions after White's c3 and d4, maybe you shouldn't play these lines at all. I'm by no means an authority on these lines though, so maybe I've got it all wrong. In general I'm very happy to play against c3 & d4 lines, but in this case there is a very specific problem. After 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nge7 5.c3 g6 6.d4 exd4 7.cxd4 b5 (or 7...Bg7 8.d5 Na5 9.Bd2!) 8.Bc2! Bg7 9.d5 Na5 10.Bd2! Black is doing badly in these lines. There are some alternatives for Black along the way but nothing I'm happy with. Playing an early ...b5 (3...a6 4.Ba4 b5 5.Bb3 g6!?) forces the bishop to b3, instead of c2. Therefore if White continues playing in the same way he won't be able to transpose to those difficult lines.

	FIDE: ~2100
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Stigma God Member Offline There is a crack in everything. Posts: 3276 Joined: 11/07/06 Gender:	Re: A ´new´ kingside fianchetto for Black in the Ruy!? Reply #6 - 07/21/18 at 16:51:31	Post Tools	Print Post
	I notice that 6.a4 has become the standard response to 5...g6!? here, with the follow-up 6...b4 and now either 7.d4 or 7.h4!?. White has won the three latest games, but it looks to me like Black was OK at some point in all of them. So this may be still be an interesting, fresh option for Black. tipau wrote on 05/03/18 at 08:08:04: Interesting line. I play the Cozio quite a bit and find the lines 3...Nge7 4.c3! (4.Nc3 Ng6! 5.d4 exd4 6.Nxd4 Nxd4 7.Qxd4 c6! I find quite playable) and 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nge7 5.c3! very challenging for Black. Maybe this would avoid direct transpositions to those lines. A critical line is likely to start with 3...a6 4.Ba4 b5 5.Bb3 g6 6.c3 Bg7 7.d4 exd4 8.cxd4. I thought these lines with c3 and d4 were what Black was aiming for in the Cozio, Aronian and Fianchetto variations, and even this new 5...g6 move order - the problem then being which more direct White tries to allow? If you don't like the positions after White's c3 and d4, maybe you shouldn't play these lines at all. I'm by no means an authority on these lines though, so maybe I've got it all wrong.

	Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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MartinC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 2110 Joined: 07/24/06	Re: A ´new´ kingside fianchetto for Black in the Ruy!? Reply #5 - 05/03/18 at 08:35:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	That or maybe something restrained that probes the extended Q side.


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tipau Full Member Offline I Like ChessPublishing! Posts: 172 Location: London, England Joined: 01/25/08	Re: A ´new´ kingside fianchetto for Black in the Ruy!? Reply #4 - 05/03/18 at 08:08:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	Interesting line. I play the Cozio quite a bit and find the lines 3...Nge7 4.c3! (4.Nc3 Ng6! 5.d4 exd4 6.Nxd4 Nxd4 7.Qxd4 c6! I find quite playable) and 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nge7 5.c3! very challenging for Black. Maybe this would avoid direct transpositions to those lines. A critical line is likely to start with 3...a6 4.Ba4 b5 5.Bb3 g6 6.c3 Bg7 7.d4 exd4 8.cxd4.

	FIDE: ~2100
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Fllg God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 647 Joined: 05/30/09 Gender:	Re: A ´new´ kingside fianchetto for Black in the Ruy!? Reply #3 - 05/02/18 at 17:10:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	RdC wrote on 05/01/18 at 22:32:28: Is White obliged to do anything? Why not keep options open by 0-0? Setting up the big centre with c3 and d4 is still possible and Black has to watch out that the crude Ng5 punt doesn't work. 6.0-0 followed by c3 would be something I would like to see with Black here since then it´s possible to transpose to a decent version of the Cozio with 6...Bg7 7.c3 Nge7 while sidestepping some of the problem lines like 3.Bb5 Nge7 4.Nc3 or 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nge7 5.c3 g6 6.d4 exd4 7.cxd4 b5 8.Bc2 Bg7 9.d5 Na5 10.Bd2 when it´s to White´s advantage that both sides haven´t castled yet. Leon_Trotsky wrote on 05/01/18 at 23:01:23: Just my opinion, but I believe that Black could get similar style positions for less problems by playing the Pirc. That´s a matter of taste. I have played the Modern Defence many times in my life but I don´t like to face some of White´s options against the Pirc like 4.Be3. Something like that does not exist for me after 1.e4 e5.


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Leon_Trotsky Senior Member Offline Кто был никем — тот станет всем! Posts: 499 Location: Barcelona, CAT Joined: 08/11/17 Gender:	Re: A ´new´ kingside fianchetto for Black in the Ruy!? Reply #2 - 05/01/18 at 23:01:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	Just my opinion, but I believe that Black could get similar style positions for less problems by playing the Pirc.

	https://elajedrezdelproletariado.blogspot.com/
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RdC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 868 Joined: 05/17/08	Re: A ´new´ kingside fianchetto for Black in the Ruy!? Reply #1 - 05/01/18 at 22:32:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	Fllg wrote on 05/01/18 at 16:21:25: The line looks interesting to me and maybe Black can use this move order to avoid some of the problem lines in the Cozio-Defence. But I am sure White will find ways to put Black under pressure here as well. Is White obliged to do anything? Why not keep options open by 0-0? Setting up the big centre with c3 and d4 is still possible and Black has to watch out that the crude Ng5 punt doesn't work.


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Fllg God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 647 Joined: 05/30/09 Gender:	A ´new´ kingside fianchetto for Black in the Ruy!? 05/01/18 at 16:21:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	I just noticed an interesting game played today in the German Bundesliga: Download game in pgn format I was not aware of the possibility of 5...g6!? before. Maybe Black was inspired by another recent game from the last European Championship: Download game in pgn format However, the line cannot exactly be called new. Checking Megabase the earliest encounter I could find was this game: Download game in pgn format There is nothing new under the sun... The line looks interesting to me and maybe Black can use this move order to avoid some of the problem lines in the Cozio-Defence. But I am sure White will find ways to put Black under pressure here as well. Does anybody know about some published analysis on this line?


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