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6.Be3 e6 7.a3 (Read 12898 times)

gsgs YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 20 Joined: 07/26/18 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #21 - 02/19/19 at 10:45:43	Post Tools	Print Post
	2 games at TCEC 14 ,superfinal , Lc0-Stockfish10 , games 3 and 4 in the archive both went 7...b5 8. g4 Bb7 9.Bg2 h5 10.g5 Ng4 however, at depth 62 I get 10.h3 with eval +0.45 and pv : 10...hxg4 11.hxg4 Rxh1+ 12.Bxh1 Nfd7 13.Qe2 Nc6 14.O-O-O g5 15.Nxc6 Qxc6 16.Bd4


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gsgs YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 20 Joined: 07/26/18 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #20 - 09/02/18 at 09:46:18	Post Tools	Print Post
	some (pseudo) piece sacrifices that I encountered in the 7.a3 lines : 7.a3 b5 8.g4 e5 9.Nf5 g6 10.Bg2 7.a3 b5 8.g4 d5 9.exd5 Bb7 10.dxe6 7.a3 b5 8.g4 Bb7 9.Bg2 Nc6 10.g5 Nd7 11.f4 h6 12.Nxe6 7.a3 Be7 8.Qe2 e5 9.Nf5 Bxf5 10.exf5 d5 11.Bg5 Qb6 12.Bxf6 Qxb2 13.Nd1 my 4 main lines (asmFish ~May2017 , 27 moves) 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 b5 8.g4 Bb7 9.Bg2 Nc6 10.g5 Nd7 11.f4 Be7 12.h4 O-O 13.f5 Nxd4 14.Qxd4 exf5 15.Nd5 Rc8 16.exf5 Rxc2 17.f6 gxf6 18.Nxe7+ Qxe7 19.Bxb7 Re8 20.Rh3 Rc4 21.Qd5 Ne5 22.Bxa6 Ng4 23.gxf6 Qxf6 24.Qg6+ Qxg5 25.hxg5 Rc5 26.b4 Rce5 27.Kd2 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 b5 8.g4 Bb7 9.Bg2 Nc6 10.g5 Nd7 11.f4 Be7 12.h4 O-O 13.Qe2 Nxd4 14.Bxd4 Qa5 15.O-O-O b4 16.axb4 Qxb4 17.f5 e5 18.Be3 Rfb8 19.f6 gxf6 20.Bh3 Bxe4 21.Nxe4 Qxb2+ 22.Kd2 Qb4+ 23.Nc3 Rc8 24.Qd3 e4 25.Rb1 Qa5 26.Ra1 Qb4 27.Rhb1 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 b5 8.g4 Bb7 9.Bg2 Nc6 10.g5 Nd7 11.f4 Be7 12.h4 O-O 13.Nxc6 Bxc6 14.h5 e5 15.Qd2 exf4 16.Bxf4 Ne5 17.h6 g6 18.O-O-O a5 19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.exd5 Rc8 21.Kb1 Rc4 22.Rh3 Rxf4 23.Qxf4 Bxg5 24.Qd4 f5 25.Bf1 Qd7 26.Qb6 b4 27.Qxa5 = +0.20d57(4) 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 b5 8.g4 Bb7 9.Bg2 Nc6 10.g5 Nd7 11.f4 Be7 12.h4 O-O 13.Nxc6 Bxc6 14.h5 a5 15.Qd2 b4 16.Ne2 Nc5 17.h6 g6 18.axb4 axb4 19.O-O Rxa1 20.Rxa1 Qb8 21.e5 Bxg2 22.Bxc5 dxc5 23.Kxg2 Qb7 24.Kg3 Rd8 25.Qe3 Bf8 26.Qf3 Qb5 27.b3 these are all complicated variations, suitable for preparation in human games and reducing the draw rate in engine games.


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bragesjo God Member Offline CCE at ICCF 2021 and CCM at ICCF 2023 Posts: 1819 Location: Eskilstuna Joined: 06/30/06 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #19 - 08/10/18 at 09:53:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	A bit off topic, but about my post above if anyone wants to know why I played that many Najdorf Be3 events is becouse it is regular standard event at ICCF. I have won one of the Najdorf events and got 2nd or 3rd place in the others. I however mainly play this since I think that the position leads to interesting play for both sides unlike some other thematical events I played in like several Petroff events.


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bragesjo God Member Offline CCE at ICCF 2021 and CCM at ICCF 2023 Posts: 1819 Location: Eskilstuna Joined: 06/30/06 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #18 - 08/09/18 at 10:16:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	About 6 Be3 Ng4 from whites point of view compare to 6 f3 I like to give a comment. 6 Be3 allows Ng4 but I dont think is an issue, I have +2 =2 -0 from thematical corr games at ICCF where I played 7 Bg5. However 6 Be3 does not commit white to a f3 setup, thus one can play the positional 7 Nf3 vs e5 and vs e6 one can play 7 Be2 or 7 a3 that this thread is about. However if white intends to play f3 setup vs both e5 and e6 than 6 f3 might be a better move order for practical reasons. In the thematical 6 Be3 events combined (5 events including a recent started) 6 .. e6 has been the most common move for some reason. A thing I noticed is that I have scored best in % with white against g6 and lowest vs e5 but I have some new ideas vs e5. I have played e5 myself in my black games in every event.
	« Last Edit: 08/09/18 at 15:10:52 by bragesjo »

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gsgs YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 20 Joined: 07/26/18 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #17 - 08/09/18 at 06:31:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	after 7.g4 black has 7..e5 small advantage black , of course over the board in such complicated tactical variations that doesn't mean much. ------------------------ after 7.g4 b5 8.g5 Nfd7 9.a3 Bb7 it's better to play h4 than Bg2. The Bf1 protects c4 and sometimes goes to h3 directly. It is only needed on g2 to protect e4 and prevent d5. But still, even with 10.Bg2 instead of h4 white should be a bit better theoretically. 10...Nc6,11.f4 Be7 12.h4 O-O 13.Nxc6 Bxc6 14.h5 is my current favourite. other possibilities : 13.f5 , 13.Qe2


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LeeRoth God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 1520 Joined: 10/22/05	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #16 - 08/08/18 at 16:03:40	Post Tools	Print Post
	Of course, 6..Ng4 is only an option for Najdorf players. It doesn't help those of us who play the Schevy with 2..e6 or even 5..e6. So what to do about 6.Be3 a6 7.a3. I'm coming around to the idea that Black should play 7..Be7, but I started looking at 7..b5 first, and I still have some questions about 7..b5 8.g4 Bb7 9.Bg2 Nfd7 10.g5. This position would come about through the Perenyi move order, after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 d6 6.Be3 a6 7.g4 b5 8.g5 Nfd7 9.a3 Bb7, if White were to play 10.Bg2 instead of the usual 10.h4. I don't know where theory currently stands in these positions, but, as best I've been able to tell, after 10..Nc6, Black ought to be OK.


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gsgs YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 20 Joined: 07/26/18 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #15 - 08/08/18 at 08:37:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	I had analysed this too, white had some advantage after 6.Be3 Ng4 7.Bg5 (+0.17 d46-50) , I should also have it at greater depth and with more moves in the main variation, but can't find it now, I think it was 7...h6 8.Bh4 g5 9.Bg3 Bg7 10.h3 Ne5 11.Nf5 10...Nf6 11.Qf3 Qb6 12.O-O-O Nc6 13.Nxc6 Qxc6 14.Be2 Qc5 +0.25d50


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TopNotch God Member Offline I only look 1 move ahead, but its always the best Posts: 2211 Joined: 01/04/03 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #14 - 08/07/18 at 16:03:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	gsgs wrote on 08/06/18 at 13:22:52: ok, it's not in the forum, but in the main page Open Sicilians Update April 2018 with GM Michael Roiz referring to a game Paravyan, D - Grandelius, N which went 7...h5 8.Be2 Nbd7 concluding "Regarding the opening, 7.a3!? definitely deserves further practical tests." with 7...h5 I had a public forum (corr.) game Stertenbrink-Sikorski , 2018 , which went 8.Bd3 b5 9.Qe2 Qc7 10.O-O-O Nbd7 11.Rhe1 etc. White was a bit better but it was not enough to win, equality was reached ~10 moves later. Interesting was 11.Bg5 according to posthum analysis (Qc5,Bd2 +0.40d52) I always thought that 6.Be3 Ng4 was an annoying line for White to meet. Does White have better than transposing to the 6.f3 Lines?

	The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones
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gsgs YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 20 Joined: 07/26/18 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #13 - 08/06/18 at 13:22:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	ok, it's not in the forum, but in the main page Open Sicilians Update April 2018 with GM Michael Roiz referring to a game Paravyan, D - Grandelius, N which went 7...h5 8.Be2 Nbd7 concluding "Regarding the opening, 7.a3!? definitely deserves further practical tests." with 7...h5 I had a public forum (corr.) game Stertenbrink-Sikorski , 2018 , which went 8.Bd3 b5 9.Qe2 Qc7 10.O-O-O Nbd7 11.Rhe1 etc. White was a bit better but it was not enough to win, equality was reached ~10 moves later. Interesting was 11.Bg5 according to posthum analysis (Qc5,Bd2 +0.40d52)


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LeeRoth God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 1520 Joined: 10/22/05	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #12 - 08/06/18 at 00:09:49	Post Tools	Print Post
	gsgs wrote on 08/02/18 at 06:43:43: kylemeister wrote on 08/01/18 at 18:13:52: One thing is, it appeared in the April update (yes, as a Scheveningen --B80). maybe you mean 6.a3 ? That's what I found here. Scheveninger Keres Attack is considered pretty good for White by Stockfish. a3 would be suboptimal there but still good for white No. In the April update, it is 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 that is covered.


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gsgs YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 20 Joined: 07/26/18 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #11 - 08/02/18 at 23:46:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	a3 is useful in that it prevents b5-b4. After 7.a3 Be7 8.f3 (which often transposes to French Steinitz) I would say that Be7 is more useful than a3 and White would prefer to change 7.a3 for another move. But in the typical English Attack variations with 7.f3 , Be7 is not optimal, it is usually delayed in favour of b5,Nbd7,Bb7. So , even with the less useful move a3, white is better than with 7.f3 b5. ------------------------------------------------ My last OTB rating was 2285, inactive, ICCF GM 1984 , Guenter Stertenbrink. This is not my analysis but asmFish's/stockfish's , I just decide on which variations to concentrate. It took me a while at first to "understand" 7.a3 and how/why such a move might be best in that position. Here is how it started : [rybkaforum , 2017 , links not allowed ] I've never considered/played 7.a3 before that.


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fdunne God Member Offline Posts: 551 Location: Ottawa Joined: 09/22/16	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #10 - 08/02/18 at 20:19:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	After 7 a3 Be7, I just don't see how you can make the case that a2-a3 is more useful than ...Be7.


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TopNotch God Member Offline I only look 1 move ahead, but its always the best Posts: 2211 Joined: 01/04/03 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #9 - 08/02/18 at 19:50:13	Post Tools	Print Post
	gsgs wrote on 08/02/18 at 07:25:46: in summary, the average evals in centipawns at depths 52-56 for the 6 main variations were : (files loh*.l1 , asmFish 9 , 4 cores , contempt=0) +24,Be7,f3 +24,e5,Nb3 +31,b5,g4 +32,h6,f4 +28,Nc6,Qd2 +18,h5,Bd3 +44,Nbd7,g4,h6,f3 you won't find such good evals for White at depth >50 for other 7th moves. What's your OTB rating?

	The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones
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gsgs YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 20 Joined: 07/26/18 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #8 - 08/02/18 at 07:25:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	in summary, the average evals in centipawns at depths 52-56 for the 6 main variations were : (files loh*.l1 , asmFish 9 , 4 cores , contempt=0) +24,Be7,f3 +24,e5,Nb3 +31,b5,g4 +32,h6,f4 +28,Nc6,Qd2 +18,h5,Bd3 +44,Nbd7,g4,h6,f3 you won't find such good evals for White at depth >50 for other 7th moves.


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gsgs YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 20 Joined: 07/26/18 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #7 - 08/02/18 at 06:57:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	> A bit sceptical, but I am willing to be persuaded it's good > if you can back it up! [/quote] 6 main responses (depth 56) , 30 variations analysed with asmFish at depth >50 (tablets, 4 cores) 71 analysis files in my g:/chess/log/7a3 directory with names : 7nc6a,9h6,be7e,7be7g,7nbd7bc4,7h6f4,11f4,11rc8,11nxd4,9nc6, 7h5bd3,8e5,7f3,9f3,8g4,7be7,11rh3,9h5,7a3t,14h5c,14h5,11be7, 7e5c,8e5b,18qe4,12qh5b,12qh5,13qe2b,9bg2b,9be7b,7nbd7,7nbd7c, be7d,11f4c,11f4b,11be7b,loh7a3,7gba,7a3b,7be7f3,12nxc6,13qd2, 11be7c,13qd2b,7be7f3b,ho1,7be7i,7be7j,10nfd7,12qe2f,7be7f,9nfd7, 7be7k,12qe2e,7be7c,hor13,7nc6,ho5,9bg2,9be7,loh7e5nb3,loh7be7f3, loh7h5bd3,loh7nc6qd2,loh7nbd7g4,loh7h6f4,loh7b5g4,7b5g4b, loh7nbd7g4h6,loh7a3b,7h5v, Code 7.a3 multipv=10 fen rnbqkb1r/1p3ppp/p2ppn2/8/3NP3/P1N1B3/1PP2PPP/R2QKB1R b KQkq - 0 7 48-50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 ----------- b7b5 , 16 1,26,39,31, 7,20,21,20,40,26,23,34,24,16,22,30,27,25,15,18, 8,19,12,17,17 , b7b5 g2g4 h7h6 f1g2 ,51 h7h6 , 20 1,12,20,32,27,15,23,12,10,27,29,19,31,36,18,30,26,27,27,40,12,20,25,17,28 , h7h6 f2f4 d8c7 d1e2 ,51 f8e7 , 21 0,16,30,20,32,20,25,17,12, 8, 8,16,11,12,10,21,15,27,13,21,10,17,22,26,24 , f8e7 f2f3 e8g8 d1d2 ,51 b8d7 , 21 5,12,30,17,21,24,15, 8,10,17,27,24,29,31,26,39,16,14,10,11,30,15,26,24,-- , b8d7 f1c4 d8c7 d1e2 ,50 e6e5 , 23 2,32,37,40,21,27,39,39,20,34,31,25,23,27,24,22,19,18,27,17,15,22,18,30,22 , e6e5 d4b3 f6g4 e3c1 ,51 b8c6 , 24 8,22,40,23,26,35,28,29,28,38,22,39,37,26,25,35,23,30,25,17,31,22,30,20,24 , b8c6 h2h3 f8e7 g2g4 ,51 h7h5 , 28 2,28,37,37,40,38,23,26, 9,10,12,15,26,30,29,27,20,30,26,23,26,30,22,33,-- , h7h5 f2f4 b8d7 f1d3 ,50 c8d7 , 38 3,40,57,51,44,67,49,45,62,--,--,51,32,40,34,30,40,37,--,--,25,29,42,43,-- , c8d7 g2g4 h7h5 g4g5 ,50 d8c7 , 41 7,48,49,35,46,26,30,38,40,37,29,40,37,52,37,35,41,32,32,37,28,47,38,40,-- , d8c7 g2g4 h7h6 f2f3 ,50 d6d5 , 46 -,--,--,--,--,--,--,47,47,28,43,57,49,--,--,--,--,--,38,50,55,45,37,57,-- , d6d5 e4d5 f6d5 c3d5 ,50 d8a5 , -- -,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,49,52,--,--,--,48,50,--,--,--,--,-- , d8a5 f2f3 b8c6 d1d2 ,46 d8d7 , -- -,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,-- , d8d7 f1e2 f8e7 f2f4 ,19 f6d7 , -- -,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,-- , f6d7 g7g6 , -- -,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,56,47,--,--,--,--,--,--,60,--,--,--,--,--,--,-- , g7g6 f1c4 f8e7 c4b3 ,44 b7b6 , -- 8,23,34,40,36,45,47,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,42,55,--,--,--,--,--,--,--,-- , b7b6 f2f3 h7h5 f1c4 ,43 ----------- 48-50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51


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gsgs YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 20 Joined: 07/26/18 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #6 - 08/02/18 at 06:43:43	Post Tools	Print Post
	kylemeister wrote on 08/01/18 at 18:13:52: One thing is, it appeared in the April update (yes, as a Scheveningen --B80). maybe you mean 6.a3 ? That's what I found here. Scheveninger Keres Attack is considered pretty good for White by Stockfish. a3 would be suboptimal there but still good for white


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gsgs YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 20 Joined: 07/26/18 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #5 - 08/02/18 at 06:36:58	Post Tools	Print Post
	yes, computers often play (7.a3 Be7 8.Qe2) 8...e5 (or 9...e5) humans in Blitz rarely play it. Here are 20 games eith it asmFish - Komodo , Houdini 20 moves only , TCEC-like time control [that didn't work , Sorry, you are not allowed to post messages containing active links to websites or images before you have posted 15 normal messages. ] Code 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Be3 e6 7. a3 Be7 01, 8. Qe2 e5 9. Nf5 Bxf5 10. exf5 d5 11. f4 exf4 12. Bxf4 d4 13.O-O-O O-O 14. Qf3 Nc6 15. Bc4 Rc8 16. Nd5 Bd6 17.Nxf6+ Qxf6 18. Kb1 Bxf4 19. Qxf4 Rcd8 20. g4 Qd6 a-k,52,24 07, 8. Qe2 e5 9. Nf5 Bxf5 10. exf5 d5 11. f4 exf4 12. Bxf4 Nc6 13.O-O-O d4 14. Qf3 O-O 15. Bc4 Rc8 16. Nd5 Bd6 17.Nxf6+ Qxf6 18. Kb1 Ne5 19. Bxe5 Bxe5 20. Bd3 Qc6 a-k,30,26 06, 8. Qe2 e5 9. Nf5 Bxf5 10. exf5 d5 11. f4 exf4 12. Bxf4 O-O 13. Qf3 Nc6 14.O-O-O d4 15. Bc4 h6 16. Rhe1 Rc8 17. Ba2 Qb6 18. Ne4 Rfd8 19. Qg3 Nxe4 20. Rxe4 Bf6 k-a,21,28 04, 8. Qe2 O-O 9.O-O-O e5 10. Nf5 Bxf5 11. exf5 d5 12. f4 exf4 13. Bxf4 d4 14. Qf3 Nc6 15. Bc4 h6 16. Rhe1 Rc8 17. Ba2 Qb6 18. Ne4 Rfd8 19. Qg3 Nxe4 20. Rxe4 Bf6 k-a,22,19 05, 8. Qe2 e5 9. Nf5 Bxf5 10. exf5 d5 11. f4 exf4 12. Bxf4 Nc6 13.O-O-O d4 14. g4 O-O 15. g5 Nd5 16. Nxd5 Qxd5 17. f6 Bxa3 18. bxa3 Rfe8 19. Bg2 Qa2 20. Qd3 Na5 a-k,00,00 03, 8. Qe2 e5 9. Nf5 Bxf5 10. exf5 d5 11. Bg5 Qb6 12.O-O-O d4 13. Ne4 Nbd7 14. Bxf6 Nxf6 15.Nxf6+ Bxf6 16. Qe4 O-O-O 17. Rd3 Qd6 18. Rb3 Qd5 19. Bd3 Qxe4 20. Bxe4 Rd7 a-k,35,08 09, 8. Qe2 e5 9. Nf5 Bxf5 10. exf5 d5 11. Bg5 Qb6 12.O-O-O d4 13. Ne4 Nbd7 14. Bxf6 Nxf6 15.Nxf6+ Bxf6 16. h4 O-O-O 17. g4 h6 18. Bg2 Rd7 19. Rh3 Qc5 20. Qe4 Qe7 a-k,23,36 02, 8. Qe2 O-O 9.O-O-O e5 10. Nf5 Bxf5 11. exf5 d5 12. Bg5 d4 13. Bxf6 Bxf6 14. Ne4 Nd7 15. h4 Rc8 16. g4 Be7 17. g5 f6 18. Kb1 Kh8 19. Bg2 Nb6 20. gxf6 Bxf6 k-a,42,25 10, 8. Qe2 O-O 9.O-O-O e5 10. Nf5 Bxf5 11. exf5 d5 12. Bg5 d4 13. Bxf6 Bxf6 14. Ne4 Be7 15. g4 Nd7 16. h4 Rc8 17. g5 f6 18. Kb1 Kh8 19. Bg2 Nc5 20. Nxc5 Rxc5 ÿ k-a,35,55 08, 8. Qe2 e5 9. Nb3 Be6 10. f3 Nbd7 11. g4 Nc5 12. Nxc5 dxc5 13. h4 b5 14. Qf2 Qc7 15.O-O-O b4 16. axb4 cxb4 17. Nd5 Bxd5 18. exd5 O-O 19. h5 b3 20. Kb1 Qxc2+ k-a,00,00 (Nf5) -------------- 26, 22 01, 8.Qe2 e5 9.Nf5 Bxf5 10.exf5 d5 11.f4 exf4 12.Bxf4 d4 13.O-O-O O-O 14.Qf3 Nc6 15.Bc4 Rc8 16.Nd5 Bd6 17.Nxf6+ Qxf6 18.Kb1 Bxf4 19.Qxf4 Rcd8 20.g4 Qd6 a-k,52,24 02, 8.Qe2 O-O 9.O-O-O e5 10.Nf5 Bxf5 11.exf5 d5 12.Bg5 d4 13.Bxf6 Bxf6 14.Ne4 Nd7 15.h4 Rc8 16.g4 Be7 17.g5 f6 18.Kb1 Kh8 19.Bg2 Nb6 20.gxf6 Bxf6 k-a,42,25 03, 8.Qe2 e5 9.Nf5 Bxf5 10.exf5 d5 11.Bg5 Qb6 12.O-O-O d4 13.Ne4 Nbd7 14.Bxf6 Nxf6 15.Nxf6+ Bxf6 16.Qe4 O-O-O 17.Rd3 Qd6 18.Rb3 Qd5 19.Bd3 Qxe4 20.Bxe4 Rd7 a-k,35,08 04, 8.Qe2 O-O 9.O-O-O e5 10.Nf5 Bxf5 11.exf5 d5 12.f4 exf4 13.Bxf4 d4 14.Qf3 Nc6 15.Bc4 h6 16.Rhe1 Rc8 17.Ba2 Qb6 18.Ne4 Rfd8 19.Qg3 Nxe4 20.Rxe4 Bf6 k-a,21,28 05, 8.Qe2 e5 9.Nf5 Bxf5 10.exf5 d5 11.f4 exf4 12.Bxf4 Nc6 13.O-O-O d4 14.g4 O-O 15.g5 Nd5 16.Nxd5 Qxd5 17.f6 Bxa3 18.bxa3 Rfe8 19.Bg2 Qa2 20.Qd3 Na5 a-k,00,00 06, 8.Qe2 e5 9.Nf5 Bxf5 10.exf5 d5 11.f4 exf4 12.Bxf4 O-O 13.Qf3 Nc6 14.O-O-O d4 15.Bc4 h6 16.Rhe1 Rc8 17.Ba2 Qb6 18.Ne4 Rfd8 19.Qg3 Nxe4 20.Rxe4 Bf6 k-a,22,19 07, 8.Qe2 e5 9.Nf5 Bxf5 10.exf5 d5 11.f4 exf4 12.Bxf4 Nc6 13.O-O-O d4 14.Qf3 O-O 15.Bc4 Rc8 16.Nd5 Bd6 17.Nxf6+ Qxf6 18.Kb1 Ne5 19.Bxe5 Bxe5 20.Bd3 Qc6 a-k,30,26 08, 8.Qe2 e5 9.Nb3 Be6 10.f3 Nbd7 11.g4 Nc5 12.Nxc5 dxc5 13.h4 b5 14.Qf2 Qc7 15.O-O-O b4 16.axb4 cxb4 17.Nd5 Bxd5 18.exd5 O-O 19.h5 b3 20.Kb1 Qxc2+ k-a,00,00 09, 8.Qe2 e5 9.Nf5 Bxf5 10.exf5 d5 11.Bg5 Qb6 12.O-O-O d4 13.Ne4 Nbd7 14.Bxf6 Nxf6 15.Nxf6+ Bxf6 16.h4 O-O-O 17.g4 h6 18.Bg2 Rd7 19.Rh3 Qc5 20.Qe4 Qe7 a-k,23,36 10, 8.Qe2 O-O 9.O-O-O e5 10.Nf5 Bxf5 11.exf5 d5 12.Bg5 d4 13.Bxf6 Bxf6 14.Ne4 Be7 15.g4 Nd7 16.h4 Rc8 17.g5 f6 18.Kb1 Kh8 19.Bg2 Nc5 20.Nxc5 Rxc5 k-a,35,55


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fdunne God Member Offline Posts: 551 Location: Ottawa Joined: 09/22/16	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #4 - 08/01/18 at 19:22:40	Post Tools	Print Post
	At a cursory glance 7...Be7 8 Qe2 e5!? looks alright for Black to me - 9 Nf5 Bxf5 10 ef5 d5 etc., and if 9 Nb3, a key point is that, compared to the English Attack, White has to worry about ...Rc8xc3 still.


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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4880 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #3 - 08/01/18 at 18:13:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	One thing is, it appeared in the April update (yes, as a Scheveningen --B80).


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Stigma God Member Offline There is a crack in everything. Posts: 3265 Joined: 11/07/06 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #2 - 08/01/18 at 17:48:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	gsgs wrote on 08/01/18 at 07:23:04: I was a bit concerned to post this here, because there are so few computer-engine analyses here. These are maybe in "competition" to human analyses and not gladly seen here ?!? Although obviously more qualified and powerful these days. Hello and welcome to the forum! Computer analysis is gladly seen here, but often it will be analysis guided by human judgement. Many strong corr. players have posted here over the years. Be aware that even when posters don't state it explicitly, they will very often have checked their analysis with an engine. For many that may even be taken for granted these days and not worth mentioning - in fact people sometimes add some words of caution when they're suggesting a line without having had access to an engine first. But how long people have analyzed and on what hardware probably varies a lot. I don't know much about the Najdorf or Scheveningen, but my immediate reaction to 7.a3 is the same one as bragesjo's. A bit sceptical, but I am willing to be persuaded it's good if you can back it up!

	Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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bragesjo God Member Offline CCE at ICCF 2021 and CCM at ICCF 2023 Posts: 1819 Location: Eskilstuna Joined: 06/30/06 Gender:	Re: 6.Be3 e6 7.a3 Reply #1 - 08/01/18 at 07:50:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	I think your are over generalsing Najdrof theory. I think that Bg5 is not in fashion becouse of all theory one must know by heart even in sidelines. GM Repertour book went for 6 Bg5 and thats a theory heavy book (I have not read it). Some other new white repertour books went for 6 h3, a modern cutting edge line. Playing 1 e4 went for 6 f3 with the idea 7 Be3 but ruling out the move Ng4 that is a popular reply after 6 Be3 and in many positions the author writes that computers think that position is equal becouse that position is complicated mess but in correspondence chess white keeps winning game after game in that position. I am also sceptical about a3 as a good move, it gives blacks b pawn a target in cases white castles long.
	« Last Edit: 08/01/18 at 09:54:42 by bragesjo »

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gsgs YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 20 Joined: 07/26/18 Gender:	6.Be3 e6 7.a3 08/01/18 at 07:23:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	I was a bit concerned to post this here, because there are so few computer-engine analyses here. These are maybe in "competition" to human analyses and not gladly seen here ?!? Although obviously more qualified and powerful these days. I had been interested in opening theory when I was active last century, especially Sicilian Najdorf, so I checked this with Stockfish now, as I became interested in chess again. The first surprise was, that 6.Bg5 is no longer considered good, since poisened pawn is an almost forced draw. Other 6th moves were also considered ~equal chances, e.g. 6.Be3,e5,Nb3,Be6,f3,Be7 etc. But 6...e6 is more interesting, sharper, Kasparov played it etc. So, here comes the real surprise ... Stockfish thinks 7.a3 ! is best after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e6 . I examined and analysed this a lot, mainly with Stockfish/asmFish, and I agree. So, how could it be that mankind missed that move for >50 years ? It should also give good chances in human games , the main variations are 7...b5 8.g4 Bb7 9.Bg2 and white succeeded to play g4 without f3 . Or 7...Be7 8.Qe2 (8.f3 is also good, it could be reached with 7.f3 Be7 8.a3 , where both Be7 and a3 are not considered best) One point is, that 7.a3 b5 8.g4 e5 ? 9.Nf5 g6 10.Bg2 ! is better for White , I called it the "asmFish trap" I have some other nice piece-sacrifices after 7.a3 ... maybe this should be in the Scheveningen Forum ?


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