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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Vladimir Kramnik retires (Read 648 times)
ReneDescartes
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Re: Vladimir Kramnik retires
Reply #11 - 02/14/19 at 01:57:39
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GeneM wrote on 02/13/19 at 11:05:03:
Under this threat, Kramnik had little choice but to cave in, despite his desire to protect the honor of the Match title and its historic lineage back to 1886.

When Kramnik finished second in 2007, V.Anand was only too happy to claim that he now owned the title that Steinitz had initiated. Anand's claim was ugly then, and it remains ugly now that we can look back on it in history.

Though I understand that others (including Carlsen) disagree, I happen to believe in the purity of the Steinitz line, as does Kramnik, and as do you and many others.

But that does not mean we who feel that way should say that Anand is at fault. Anand pursued every opportunity for various advertised world championships afforded him--from FIDE, PCA, etc; in long time controls, rapid, and blitz; in classical matches and in tournaments. Anand of 2007, Khalifman, Kazimdzanov, and Topalov are not to blame for pursuing their opportunities.

It's up to us, not them, to speak of which of these we regard as most important. But leaving out the aforementioned players in one's championship list is one thing; calling the players' behavior ugly is another.

Anand, in particular, is a gentleman universally admired, as far as I know, by all players, and treated well by everyone but Kasparov, who seems to enjoy taunting him. What was Anand supposed to do--refuse to participate? Should Aronian and the others have refused? But the tournament functioned as a candidates' tournament for the classical championship, so they would have been giving up their chances at the classical title by refusing! And after Anand won, should he have angered FIDE by disputing their description of the tournament?

Kramnik was himself party to on the unification deal, largely because of the rematch clause. Surely he was brave enough to refuse, as Karpov had done before him. Kramnik probably thought, pragmatist that he is, that if he could win a Kramnik-xx match in 2008, no one would care if someone else  had won a big tournament in 2007, and that conversely, if he should lose the 2008 match, it really wouldn't matter so very much what the date of the official loss had been. Anand probably though the same thing. And if they thought that, they were right.

In sum, it is not necessary to take anything away from Anand in order to praise Kramnik. We are lucky to have had them both.
« Last Edit: 02/14/19 at 10:43:13 by ReneDescartes »  
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GeneM
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Re: Vladimir Kramnik retires
Reply #10 - 02/13/19 at 11:05:03
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Kramnik won a 1:1 Match title from Kasparov in 2000. The title started with Steinitz as a Match title, and it remains a Match title; not a many-players Tournament title.

In 2007, Kirsan Illumzhinov threatened Kramnik with exclusion from any near-term participation in world title play. I found it ugly to see the elite grandmasters of the time side with Kirsan in this threat (quietly and implicitly, yet clearly the sided with Kirsan). After all, Kramnik did not have as much gravitas as did Kasparov.

Under this threat, Kramnik had little choice but to cave in, despite his desire to protect the honor of the Match title and its historic lineage back to 1886.

When Kramnik finished second in 2007, V.Anand was only too happy to claim that he now owned the title that Steinitz had initiated. Anand's claim was ugly then, and it remains ugly now that we can look back on it in history.
Even Kirsan knew it was so ugly it might not hold up in later the eyes of history. So Kirsan granted Kramnik a free turn as challenger to Anand in 2008 (as Kirsan described it).

I say that Anand wrested the historic Match title away from Kramnik in their 2008 Match, not in the 2007 Tournament.

- - - - -

The same nonsense was attempted with V.Topalov's victory in the 2005 Tournament, in which Kramnik wisely refused to participate. Topalov claim in 2005 that his Tournament victory meant that Kramnik was no longer the world champ. But after some initial uncertainty, the chess world rejected Topalov's claim.

Then Kramnik's 2006 Match victory over Topalov was heroic, for multiple reasons. First, it emphasized how bogus Topalov's claim of Topalov having taken Kramnik's title with his 2005 victory. Second, Kramnik won the 2006 match despite forfeiting a game in a 12 game match, and despite the dishonorable behavior of Topalov and Danilov. Kramnik's 2006 Match victory protected the integrity of the Match title. Had Topalov won, chess history would have wrongly recorded that Topalov's reign began in 2005 (and was only confirmed in 2006). This scenario is essentially what Anand claims for his 2007 and 2008 victories: boo.

No Tournament can ever transfer a Match title (from a living title holder), by Definition!

Goodbye Vlad, and thanks.
  

GeneM , CastleLong.com , FRC-chess960
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Laramonet
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Re: Vladimir Kramnik retires
Reply #9 - 01/31/19 at 19:53:53
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What a fantastic thought ReneDescartes ! If that book were to be published I would treasure it. One of my best chess memories is visiting one of the Kramnik v Kasparov games. All the seats were sold out and after waiting for returns they sold me a single ticket right next to his back-up team. I think it included Illescas.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: Vladimir Kramnik retires
Reply #8 - 01/31/19 at 18:17:25
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Good luck to one of my favorite players ever, an artistic and philosophical person as well as a gentleman.

It would be wonderful if, as part of his efforts to popularize chess, Kramnik wrote a collection of his best games with clear verbal notes and carefully selected variations to rival those in, e.g., Keres's and Botvinnik's collections. Kasparov's and Anand's collections (in the latter case the games from 1998 or so on, anyway) are too full of long computer lines for my taste.
« Last Edit: 01/31/19 at 22:16:04 by ReneDescartes »  
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Re: Vladimir Kramnik retires
Reply #7 - 01/31/19 at 06:45:09
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Do what you like.
Don't do what you dislike.
Life is short.
  
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Re: Vladimir Kramnik retires
Reply #6 - 01/30/19 at 19:02:24
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All things must pass.

It is not so often human beings have so much control over when an end is to be reached.

There is something positive to be said about the resolve and fortitude of those that hang on and there is something both noble and melancholy about those that lay down their battle gear long before their real losing endgame is manifest.

  
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Re: Vladimir Kramnik retires
Reply #5 - 01/30/19 at 18:31:18
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 01/30/19 at 08:57:13:
If I decided to retire every time I had a bad tournament I would have retired many times by now!

  • If I had your typical bad tournament, I would consider it an atypical success!
  • If I had Kramnik's worst tournament, I would consider it a lifetime achievement!

But I can understand if Kramnik is no longer motivated to maintain an arbitrary "top X" Elo standard. The gap in opportunities between "top X" and the rest is wide enough that retirement looks like a good option.
  
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grandpatzer
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Re: Vladimir Kramnik retires
Reply #4 - 01/30/19 at 18:18:03
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It's a bit strange to retire in your mid 40s, when chess has been your whole professional life (and maybe more). He still could do a lot, maybe in perspective no longer in the top 10 or so, but he could definitely do a lot... Undecided
  
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Re: Vladimir Kramnik retires
Reply #3 - 01/30/19 at 15:50:43
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This makes me very sad. Kramnik is one of my favourite players, on and off the board.
  
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Re: Vladimir Kramnik retires
Reply #2 - 01/30/19 at 13:23:10
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 01/30/19 at 08:57:13:
If I decided to retire every time I had a bad tournament I would have retired many times by now!

Not sure if this is a joke, but supposedly he has planned to retire for something like half a year now, and just wanted to get a/the last tournament in, before announcing it.
I see no reason not to believe this, especially given the way he played in Wijk

When the spark is gone, it's gone. All the best to Kramnik! A legend of the game, he can be rather content with what he achieved.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Vladimir Kramnik retires
Reply #1 - 01/30/19 at 08:57:13
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If I decided to retire every time I had a bad tournament I would have retired many times by now!
  
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Vladimir Kramnik retires
01/30/19 at 00:13:34
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Hi.

News that former world champion Vladimir Kramnik is retiring from professional chess can be found on the Tata Steel webpage.

This strikes me as really quite sad. Good luck in the future to mr. Kramnik though.
  
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