Latest Updates:
Normal Topic Botvinnik English (Read 7142 times)
Mtal
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 223
Joined: 05/15/07
Re: Botvinnik English
Reply #9 - 04/05/20 at 12:08:05
Post Tools
Could you also go into a Botvinnik if black starts with the symmetrical english? Would it be a good idea?  Reading the above would it be a little difficult because black would try e5 maybe? Just asking cause I'm thinking of playing and not sure what to do vs c5. Not liking the angle bernini stuff of nf3 and d4 for some reason. Thanks.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10758
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Botvinnik English
Reply #8 - 02/08/19 at 14:31:28
Post Tools
I'm not sure if 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 f5 3.d4 exd4 4.Qxd4 Nf6 (the tempo win Nc6 won't run away) is superior to 3.e4 (which, like I wrote, almost forces d6).
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ham204
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 50
Joined: 09/15/09
Re: Botvinnik English
Reply #7 - 02/07/19 at 19:29:20
Post Tools
Thank you for your thoughts. The ...e5 and ...f5 scenario is a real one for me to meet and it's good to know not to try the Botvinnik against it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MW
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 274
Joined: 04/20/18
Gender: Male
Re: Botvinnik English
Reply #6 - 02/07/19 at 19:27:46
Post Tools

I think the Botvinnik System is a good option for white and I've had reasonable success with it ...but after 1c4 e5,  2 Nc3 f5, perhaps a better option (as black hasn't played ...Nc6) is the immediate 3 d4 attacking the centre....? 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10758
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Botvinnik English
Reply #5 - 02/07/19 at 16:20:58
Post Tools
ham204 wrote on 02/06/19 at 16:06:13:
How about the early ...e5 and ...f5 by Black?


TonyRo wrote on 02/06/19 at 18:20:54:
What move order exactly? I'm doubtful that you're going to be able to successfully get e4 in.


White has 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 f5 3.e4 as d6 is almost forced. As a general rule the Botvinnik is not advisable as long as Black can still play ...Bb4 and/or ...Bc5.
For instance White should avoid something like 1.c4 f5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 e6 4.Bg2 Be7 5.d3 O-O 6.e4 as well.

  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Laramonet
Senior Member
****
Offline


Gwyddbwll am byth !

Posts: 346
Location: Kidwelly
Joined: 03/16/07
Gender: Male
Re: Botvinnik English
Reply #4 - 02/06/19 at 20:42:16
Post Tools
If the move order is something like 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nc6 3.Nc3 f5 Marin recommends 4.Nf3 with 5.d4.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1830
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: Botvinnik English
Reply #3 - 02/06/19 at 18:20:54
Post Tools
ham204 wrote on 02/06/19 at 16:06:13:
How about the early ...e5 and ...f5 by Black?

What move order exactly? I'm doubtful that you're going to be able to successfully get e4 in.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ham204
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 50
Joined: 09/15/09
Re: Botvinnik English
Reply #2 - 02/06/19 at 16:06:13
Post Tools
Thank you for your insight.

How about the early ...e5 and ...f5 by Black?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1830
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: Botvinnik English
Reply #1 - 02/06/19 at 15:20:58
Post Tools
Most of the English books recommend the Botvinnik against Black setups with ...g6, e.g. against the pure King's Indian setup, or against the 1...e5 setups that incorporate a later ...g6. Marin's book covers both, and Kosten's book covers just the latter. Both are full of great insights on the structure in general. When I was 16 I carried around Tony's book everywhere, and I still feel like I have a great handle on the Botvinnik positions with ...e5.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ham204
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 50
Joined: 09/15/09
Botvinnik English
02/06/19 at 14:18:15
Post Tools
The English has been my 'go to' opening when I need to rest my QP openings. I'm thinking of  using it more. The Botvinnik English grip is very appealing. My question to my learnt friends is against which pawn structures is the Botvinnik English particularly effective?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo