Could you also go into a Botvinnik if black starts with the symmetrical english? Would it be a good idea?  Reading the above would it be a little difficult because black would try e5 maybe? Just asking cause I'm thinking of playing and not sure what to do vs c5. Not liking the angle bernini stuff of nf3 and d4 for some reason. Thanks.

Thank you for your thoughts. The ...e5 and ...f5 scenario is a real one for me to meet and it's good to know not to try the Botvinnik against it.

ham204 wrote on 02/06/19 at 16:06:13:


TonyRo wrote on 02/06/19 at 18:20:54:


White has 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 f5 3.e4 as d6 is almost forced. As a general rule the Botvinnik is not advisable as long as Black can still play ...Bb4 and/or ...Bc5.
For instance White should avoid something like 1.c4 f5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 e6 4.Bg2 Be7 5.d3 O-O 6.e4 as well.

ham204 wrote on 02/06/19 at 16:06:13:

What move order exactly? I'm doubtful that you're going to be able to successfully get e4 in.

Most of the English books recommend the Botvinnik against Black setups with ...g6, e.g. against the pure King's Indian setup, or against the 1...e5 setups that incorporate a later ...g6. Marin's book covers both, and Kosten's book covers just the latter. Both are full of great insights on the structure in general. When I was 16 I carried around Tony's book everywhere, and I still feel like I have a great handle on the Botvinnik positions with ...e5.