Leon_Trotsky wrote on 02/21/19 at 02:19:42:
RdC wrote on 02/14/19 at 08:12:24:
You can also play 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 d6 where 4. d4 is again critical and if 4. .. exd4 similar positions can be reached.
This looks like transposes to a Philidor Антошин after Black goes ...g6. Or a Pirc where Black plays an early ...e5.
RdC wrote on 02/14/19 at 08:12:24:
Perhaps if you like the g6, Bg7 idea in the Spanish against a slow build up by White with d3 and c3, then much the same is plausible in slow Italians.
I have been seeing the fianchetto in the Ruy López more lately. Last time was just today in Аэрофлот. I think that it was a game where Wang Hao was playing (¿). However in that case the game had ...a6 first before ...g6.
But the one who uses it at least semi-regularly to me is Məmmədjarow. I honestly did not expect him to have played 3...g6 in the Italian against a 2600+ GM.
I remember also I was in a tournament and I saw Alejandro Ramírez play a Berlin, but after his opponent played 4. d3 the game started looking like a Ruy López Смислов. He must have played ...d6 and ...g6 fairly early.
Vienna maybe 1. e4 e5 2. Cc3 g6 since d4 is not good right now. Even after 3. f4 just play ...d6 and go back to setup.
2. Ac4 g6 looks okay I think and would transpose to one of the other aforementions.
But with a viable ...g6 against the Ruy López, Italian and Scotch, that is most of the worry done
I have played some of these ...g6 systems as black. The only thing "wrong" with them is that the main lines give white more problems. For example after 3.Bc4 I mostly play 3...Bc5 and have a decent record, performing maybe +50 above my Elo -- pretty good for the black pieces. In the handful of games where I played 3...Nf6 I scored 100%(!). With 3...d6 I have some draws against strong opponents, one loss against a strong opponent (see next paragraph), and a bunch of wins against players 300+ Elo weaker. So roughly the same as 3...Bc5, but the 3...d6 games are a little stodgy. Against certain opponents, a little stodge is just what is needed.
Italian 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 d6!? (or 2...d6 3.Bc4 Nc6!?) 4.d4 exd4 5.c3 is sharpest. 5...dxc3 is known from the Goering Gambit. Heiling (1987)
Larsen Variante analyzed 5...Ne5!? as in Glek - Dreev, USSR jr ch 1985. And I think Heiling's comments were based on Dreev's from somewhere, probably an
Informator. I only faced this one time, against Esserman. I chose 5...d3, the way Keres handled these positions, and got a very playable game, but lost to a player with more talent.
Glek - Dreev:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1038882Spanish 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 I haven't tried 3...g6, but I have looked at it. I mostly play other variations, but sometimes I have played 3...d6 4.d4 Bd7 5.Nc3 exd4 6.Nxd4 g6. Compared with other open game ...g6 variations, this Spanish version has pluses and minuses for both colors. I am sure white can keep an edge there, but I have always wondered why white never plays 5.Bxc6 Bxc6 6.Nc3 (or 6.Qd3 with the same idea) ... ? If black plays 6...Nf6 then 7.Qd3 (or 7.Nc3 if it was 6.Qd3) is a good line for white. Maybe 6...f6, but this is the kind of move Steinitz used to be criticized for.
Scotch 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 g6 I have played only four times (4...Nf6 is
the move). For some reason all four games went 5.Nxc6 bxc6 6.Qd4?! Qf6, and I think black is doing great. This is the upside to the ...g6 systems, many white players are instantly out of book, and thinking for themselves leads to mistakes.
Vienna 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 g6 at this moment looks bad to me ... 3.d4! exd4 4.Qxd4 f6 or 4...Nf6 5.Bg5 is a great Center Game, and 4...Qf6 is not like the Scotch: 5.Qxf6! Nxf6 6.e5 Ng8 7.Nd5 Kd8 8.Bg5+. Maybe black can get away with 3.d4 d6 4.exd5 exd5 5.Qxd8+ Kxd8, but it seems risky. For example 6.Bc4 Ke8 7.f4!? and I would not want to be black. Ovetchkin/Soloviov (2015)
The Modern Vienna Game gives a different approach. 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 g6 3.Bc4 Bg7 4.f4 d6 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.d3 Nf6 7.O-O O-O 8.fxe5 dxe5 9.Bg5 h6 10.Bh4 Na5 11.Bb3 Nxb3 12.axb3 c6 13.Qd2 Be6 14.Qf2 +=. I don't have the book in front of me, that line is from memory. But I remember the double-threat Rxa7 and Nxe5, I hope I have the other details correct.