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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires (Read 39142 times)
VGA
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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #79 - 10/27/19 at 12:24:40
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Well, it is a repertoire book in the sense that it tackles most major openings after d4 c4 and some minor ones. But it isn't a complete repertoire. Also, it offers several ideas so it is a wide repertoire.

So it isn't a book for players who want a book for their "first" repertoire book that will take them by the hand and strictly recommend very specific moves every step of the way and will also cover weird sidelines that they might encounter at the amateur level.

I believe this book is for intermediate players who already play d4 c4 and want an upgrade or fresh middlegame positions without changing openings.

EDIT: Talking about Moskalenko's book. It is sad that we discuss two books in the same thread. Split?
  
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grandpatzer
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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #78 - 10/27/19 at 08:21:55
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VGA wrote on 10/26/19 at 22:49:29:
It is NOT a complete repertoire book. Against the Dutch he says the reader should buy his other book for example. Seriously? Put a little chapter there!


Then why don't publishers title these books properly, for example: "A Compendium of original ideas for the 1.d4, 2.c4 Player", rather than advertising them as "repertoire books" in the first place. Of course the "repertoire" title sells, but intellectual honesty should go first. 
  
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VGA
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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #77 - 10/26/19 at 22:49:29
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 07/03/19 at 22:53:03:
I have books by him on his flexible French, his older Winawer book, his Pirc/Modern book and Budapest book. My impression was that his style was more in ideas, but not as organised and structured as for example, Awrukh.

How is structure in this repertoire book compare to his previous books ¿

It is NOT a complete repertoire book. Against the Dutch he says the reader should buy his other book for example. Seriously? Put a little chapter there!

This book reminds me of his Diamond Dutch book, it is a collection of ideas and plans for several Black defences. This is a book for people who already play d4 and want to improve their repertoire or add more stuff to it.

He gives little intros to a defence with historical and theoretical information and the main line and then the games follow separately. I like that approach.
« Last Edit: 10/27/19 at 01:12:20 by VGA »  
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Stigma
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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #76 - 07/03/19 at 23:15:04
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@gillbod,

thanks a lot! That's enough detail for me.  Smiley

gillbod wrote on 07/03/19 at 20:26:09:
There is some new material, but not a huge amount. Particularly in that 8...fxe6 line, after 12.Nb5, instead of following up with 13.Qb3 as Moskalenko did in the old analysis (which he also provides here), he also provides some extra options with 13.fxe5.

Just one comment: This assumes 12.Nb5 e5 is the critical line, but there's also 12...Ne8, which I think I would prefer if I got this position as Black. I like keeping options open with the central pawns when I can, and White hasn't done all that well against ...Ne8 it in practice.
  

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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #75 - 07/03/19 at 22:53:03
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I have books by him on his flexible French, his older Winawer book, his Pirc/Modern book and Budapest book. My impression was that his style was more in ideas, but not as organised and structured as for example, Awrukh.

How is structure in this repertoire book compare to his previous books ¿
  
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gillbod
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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #74 - 07/03/19 at 20:26:09
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Stigma wrote on 07/02/19 at 23:11:51:
Since you seem to have both these Moskalenko books, does the section on 8.dxe6 fxe6 in his KID main line look like it's been updated much?
9.Bd3 Nc6 10.0-0 Nd4 11.Nxd4 cxd4 12.Nb5 used to be the main line, but I think Black is fine. White has alternatives like 11.Bd2 or 11.Qe1, but I'm not sure they achieve much. For one thing Black can play ...Nh5 against several White move orders.


There is some new material, but not a huge amount. Particularly in that 8...fxe6 line, after 12.Nb5, instead of following up with 13.Qb3 as Moskalenko did in the old analysis (which he also provides here), he also provides some extra options with 13.fxe5.

Stigma wrote on 07/02/19 at 23:11:51:
After 5.Bd2 Bg7 6.e4 Nb6 7.Be3 0-0, is Moskalenko sticking with his trademark 8.f4!? I've seen theory indicating after 8...Nc6 9.d5 Na5 it leads to a forced draw with best play. There is also the almost unknown 8.f4 c5!?, which Larry Kaufman has claimed is at least equal for Black.

I think I saw a Moskalenko game with the calmer 8.h3 instead, so maybe he has switched.


He does cover 8.f4, and tries to give ways to avoid the draw after 8...Nc6 9.d5 Na5 as far as I can see. The analysis of alternatives comes relatively deep into the lines, so I don't feel that it's fair to share that level of detail here out of respect to the publisher.

In addition, to 8.f4, coverage is also given to 8.Be2, 8.Bb5 and 8.h3.

It really is a book with a lot of options for white. I get the impression that Moskalenko just went through his personal opening files and decided to polish some selected lines and make a book out of it.

I've been enjoying it so far; he does have a good knack for explanation, and I like the line selection.
  
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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #73 - 07/03/19 at 16:16:29
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Whilst I like many of the lines being presented in this book the question for me is are the majority of games Moskalenko is using to support the repertoire up-to -date (e.g played within the last couple of years)?
  
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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #72 - 07/03/19 at 04:41:10
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 07/03/19 at 04:30:40:
The only line that could be critical for Black is where White setup weird Stonewall structure. I think that that was line 5. Ad2 Cb6 6. e3 Ag7 7. f4!? where it can get very sharp. But of course Black can avoid this completely with simple 5...Ag7 Cheesy

I wouldn't say 5...Bg7 is simple. Maybe if Black meets 6.e4 with 6...Nxc3, but even there White can get attacking chances. 5...Bg7 6.e4 Nb6 is naturally complex since all eight minor pieces are still on the board.

Leon_Trotsky wrote on 07/03/19 at 04:30:40:
I was expecting something crazy against Grünfeld, like 5. h4. 3. f3 would be a choice for aggressive, but since he gives Four Prawns against KID he cannot recommend it for transposition problems.

Moskalenko is recommending mostly the same lines he has been playing and recommending for years, decades even. So I'm not so surprised. The biggest change may be the Exchange Slav. I believe at the time of Revolutionize Your Chess he wanted to play into Semi-Slav main lines - at least the book had some coverage of the Botvinnik Semi-Slav.
  

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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #71 - 07/03/19 at 04:30:40
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5. Ad2 in Grünfeld looks like one of those "surprise" lines, at least my impression is to use it only rarely to surprise opponent rather than regular line. Such as when Anand played it against Carlsen in 1th World Championchip game in 2015.

The only line that could be critical for Black is where White setup weird Stonewall structure. I think that that was line 5. Ad2 Cb6 6. e3 Ag7 7. f4!? where it can get very sharp. But of course Black can avoid this completely with simple 5...Ag7 Cheesy

I was expecting something crazy against Grünfeld, like 5. h4. 3. f3 would be a choice for aggressive, but since he gives Four Prawns against KID he cannot recommend it for transposition problems.
  
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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #70 - 07/02/19 at 23:11:51
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gillbod wrote on 07/02/19 at 21:52:02:
1) The KID and Nimzo chapters are to a large part recycled from previous Moskalenko work. Perhaps some new stuff has been added. There is certainly some material that has been cut compared to Revolutionize your Chess.

Since you seem to have both these Moskalenko books, does the section on 8.dxe6 fxe6 in his KID main line look like it's been updated much?
9.Bd3 Nc6 10.0-0 Nd4 11.Nxd4 cxd4 12.Nb5 used to be the main line, but I think Black is fine. White has alternatives like 11.Bd2 or 11.Qe1, but I'm not sure they achieve much. For one thing Black can play ...Nh5 against several White move orders.

gillbod wrote on 07/02/19 at 21:52:02:
Against the Grunfeld, 5.Bd2 is the recommendation, but Moskalenko gives multiple plans for white, e.g. after 5...Nb6 6.Nf3, 6.Bf4, 6.Bg5, are covered. As well as 6.e3 followed by 7.Nf3 or 7.f4.

After 5.Bd2 Bg7 6.e4 Nb6 7.Be3 0-0, is Moskalenko sticking with his trademark 8.f4!? I've seen theory indicating after 8...Nc6 9.d5 Na5 it leads to a forced draw with best play. There is also the almost unknown 8.f4 c5!?, which Larry Kaufman has claimed is at least equal for Black.

I think I saw a Moskalenko game with the calmer 8.h3 instead, so maybe he has switched.
« Last Edit: 07/03/19 at 04:10:01 by Stigma »  

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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #69 - 07/02/19 at 22:01:04
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gillbod wrote on 07/02/19 at 21:52:02:
I picked up the Forward Chess version.

It's more or less what I was expecting from reading the preview.

Quick points:

1) The KID and Nimzo chapters are to a large part recycled from previous Moskalenko work. Perhaps some new stuff has been added. There is certainly some material that has been cut compared to Revolutionize your Chess.

2)  As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, it's not a repertoire book. E.g. gaps in coverage against the Dutch, what do do against 1...e6 1...g6 and 1...d6. It's certainly a foundation for a repertoire. Perhaps mainly useful for existing white d4 players looking to broaden their horizons.

3) Furthermore from 2, there are often several options given within each line. E.g. both the Saemisch (with classical e3 set ups) and f3 in the Nimzo. Against the Grunfeld, 5.Bd2 is the recommendation, but Moskalenko gives multiple plans for white, e.g. after 5...Nb6 6.Nf3, 6.Bf4, 6.Bg5, are covered. As well as 6.e3 followed by 7.Nf3 or 7.f4.

Against the Queens Gambit Accepted, again several options for white are given e.g. 1.d4 d5 2.c4 cxd4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bxc4 c5 6.0-0 a6 and now 7.Bd3, 7.b3, 7.Bb3, 7.a4 get a game of analysis each. Also 3.e3 Nf6 4.Bxc4 a6 5.Qe2 is given a game.

4) I can imagine that some buyers might not count the recommendations against the Slav (exchange) and the Semi Slav Triangle (Marshall Gambit, but with 6.Nc3 like Carlsen-Anand 2013 World Championship match) as aggressive. Particularly in the Triangle where finding sharp stuff is easier than finding quiet stuff! That he didn't choose to do so is perfectly fine by me, but it might not be to everyone's taste.

As an aside, the repertoire complements the old Keene + Jacob's Opening Repertoire for White very nicely. E.g. similar structures in the Nimzo, but different move orders (so the white player could choose between 4.a3 4.f3 and 4.e3). Benoni Flick Knife is covered, but with different plans. King side hacks against the KID where possible, but with queenside play likely if Black knows their theory. Gruenfeld plans which avoid the standard c3 d4 e4 pawn centre. Exchange Slav, but one with an early Nf3 and the other without. It's quite nice as a combination: thematic overlap, but different lines.

Other lines that I haven't mentioned above: Qc2 against the Benko. f3 exchange plans against he QGD (I've not looked at these chapters yet, only eyeballed them).

Some might not like that this is not a complete repertoire, and that it opts for some breadth of analysis over depth. But I will find some material in here to incorporate into my own play, so I'm happy.


Thank you so much gillbod. Well, I know a few "complete repertoires" who give just a few superficial lines against some defences, just to say "OK, we covered that", and although I would have liked this book to be a complete repertoire, I appreciate the Author's honesty in completely omitting what he hasn't covered. This said, I am really curious about this book.

  
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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #68 - 07/02/19 at 21:52:02
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I picked up the Forward Chess version.

It's more or less what I was expecting from reading the preview.

Quick points:

1) The KID and Nimzo chapters are to a large part recycled from previous Moskalenko work. Perhaps some new stuff has been added. There is certainly some material that has been cut compared to Revolutionize your Chess.

2)  As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, it's not a repertoire book. E.g. gaps in coverage against the Dutch, what do do against 1...e6 1...g6 and 1...d6. It's certainly a foundation for a repertoire. Perhaps mainly useful for existing white d4 players looking to broaden their horizons.

3) Furthermore from 2, there are often several options given within each line. E.g. both the Saemisch (with classical e3 set ups) and f3 in the Nimzo. Against the Grunfeld, 5.Bd2 is the recommendation, but Moskalenko gives multiple plans for white, e.g. after 5...Nb6 6.Nf3, 6.Bf4, 6.Bg5, are covered. As well as 6.e3 followed by 7.Nf3 or 7.f4.

Against the Queens Gambit Accepted, again several options for white are given e.g. 1.d4 d5 2.c4 cxd4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bxc4 c5 6.0-0 a6 and now 7.Bd3, 7.b3, 7.Bb3, 7.a4 get a game of analysis each. Also 3.e3 Nf6 4.Bxc4 a6 5.Qe2 is given a game.

4) I can imagine that some buyers might not count the recommendations against the Slav (exchange) and the Semi Slav Triangle (Marshall Gambit, but with 6.Nc3 like Carlsen-Anand 2013 World Championship match) as aggressive. Particularly in the Triangle where finding sharp stuff is easier than finding quiet stuff! That he didn't choose to do so is perfectly fine by me, but it might not be to everyone's taste.

As an aside, the repertoire complements the old Keene + Jacob's Opening Repertoire for White very nicely. E.g. similar structures in the Nimzo, but different move orders (so the white player could choose between 4.a3 4.f3 and 4.e3). Benoni Flick Knife is covered, but with different plans. King side hacks against the KID where possible, but with queenside play likely if Black knows their theory. Gruenfeld plans which avoid the standard c3 d4 e4 pawn centre. Exchange Slav, but one with an early Nf3 and the other without. It's quite nice as a combination: thematic overlap, but different lines.

Other lines that I haven't mentioned above: Qc2 against the Benko. f3 exchange plans against he QGD (I've not looked at these chapters yet, only eyeballed them).

Some might not like that this is not a complete repertoire, and that it opts for some breadth of analysis over depth. But I will find some material in here to incorporate into my own play, so I'm happy.
  
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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #67 - 07/02/19 at 20:54:12
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grandpatzer wrote on 07/02/19 at 19:05:47:
From an email I got from New in Chess, the line vs. the Grunfeld is the early Bd2 line, and the Botvinnik plan of f3-e4 in the Exchange QGD


Thanks grandpatzer...

5 Bd2 used to be popular when I was in my teens and that was a good few years ago!
  
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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #66 - 07/02/19 at 19:05:47
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Dink Heckler wrote on 07/02/19 at 10:25:47:
Moskalenko's choice of the Exchange Slav in an ostensibly 'go for the throat' repertoire certainly raises some eyebrows. Stylistic consistency is a bit over-rated, but nevertheless, this choice does stand out a bit.


Perhaps is the "early Bf4", without Nf3, Exchange Slav?
From an email I got from New in Chess, the line vs. the Grunfeld is the early Bd2 line, and the Botvinnik plan of f3-e4 in the Exchange QGD.
  
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Re: Two new 1 d4 2 c4 Repertoires
Reply #65 - 07/02/19 at 10:25:47
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Moskalenko's choice of the Exchange Slav in an ostensibly 'go for the throat' repertoire certainly raises some eyebrows. Stylistic consistency is a bit over-rated, but nevertheless, this choice does stand out a bit.
  

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