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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5? (Read 8031 times)
mn
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #20 - 05/03/19 at 17:41:45
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Yep, unfortunately I don't think 2 Nf3 Bg4 is very good.
  
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gillbod
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #19 - 05/03/19 at 12:09:21
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I'm coming to this a bit late, but it hasn't been mentioned in the thread so far. But this line was recommended in Lakdawala's ...d6 move by move book. He gives it 11 games worth of analysis.

I feel it's still an underrated line. What stops me from playing it as black is 1.d4 d6 2.Nf3. Seems like a useful line to incorporate for KID and Pirc players.
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #18 - 03/05/19 at 06:24:28
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I notice that the sample of that forthcoming Avrukh book mentions a game L'Ami-Mamedyarov, evidently this ...
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1787395

...which went 1. d4 d6 2. c4 e5 3. Nc3 exd4 4. Qxd4 Nc6 5. Qd2 g6 6. b3 Bg7 7. Bb2 Nf6 8. g3 O-O 9. Bg2 Re8 10. Nf3 Bf5 11. Nh4 Bd7.  The late Zdenko Krnić once gave 11...Be6 12. 0-0 Nd7 as equal.  I see that 12...a5 was chosen e.g. by Vachier Lagrave against the other L'Ami (Alina, wife of Erwin).
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #17 - 03/05/19 at 04:46:40
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Here's another one with black hyper-activity vs the space "advantage" in the ...e5xd4 structure. This is game 53 in Donaldson (1991) How to Win Quickly at Chess. Sonntag - Christiansen, Bundesliga 1988/89 http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1089154

Barsky (2010) A Universal Weapon 1.d4 d6 arrived. It's worth pointing out that, unlike Yrjola/Tella and Zude/Hickl, Barsky is not in a hurry to play ...c7-c6. He is quite dismissive of the Rg1, g4 plan, offering Sosonko - Hort, Bad Kissingen 1981 http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1058243 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 dxe5 4.Qxd8+ Kxd8 5.Nc3 Be6 6.b3 Nd7 7.Nf3 f6 8.Rg1 Bb4 9.Bd2 Nh6 10.Ne4 Bxd2+ 11.Kxd2 Nf7 12.e3 Ke7 13.Be2 Nd6 14.Nxd6 cxd6 =. The only caveat is, that wasn't a real fight. In this 6-player double RR, won by Korchnoi with 9/10, Hort and Sosonko drew in 15 moves in round 4, and in 20 moves in round 9. Seirawan was the fighter, and it would have been more interesting to see him trying with either color in this opening. I played around with the more combative 10.a3 Be7 11.Bxh6!? gxh6, but the black bishops are strong enough, and the white queenside pawns are sensitive enough, that it still seems equal.

Bad Kissingen 1981 4.25 r1 4.26 r2 4.27 r3 4.28 r4 4.30 r5 5.01 r6 5.02 r7 5.03 r8 5.04 r9 5.05 r0 Pts   (moves)
Korchnoi b So + (37) b Lo + (13) w Se + (62) b Wi + (36) w Ho + (40) w So + (26) w Lo + (46) b Se = (32) w Wi + (24) b Ho = (12) 9.0 (328)
Hort w Se - (34) b Wi + (48) b Lo + (42) w So = (15) b Ko - (40) b Se = (39) w Wi + (36) w Lo + (33) b So = (20) w Ko = (12) 6.0 (319)
Seirawan b Ho + (34) w So + (63) b Ko - (62) w Lo - (30) b Wi + (40) w Ho = (39) b So - (24) w Ko = (32) b Lo + (42) w Wi + (35) 6.0 (401)
Sosonko w Ko - (37) b Se - (63) w Wi = (26) b Ho = (15) b Lo = (44) b Ko - (26) w Se + (24) b Wi - (34) w Ho = (20) w Lo = (21) 3.5 (310)
Wirthensohn b Lo + (59) w Ho - (48) b So = (26) w Ko - (36) w Se - (40) w Lo = (46) b Ho - (36) w So + (34) b Ko - (24) b Se - (35) 3.0 (384)
Lobron w Wi - (59) w Ko - (13) w Ho - (42) b Se + (30) w So = (44) b Wi = (46) b Ko - (46) b Ho - (33) w Se - (42) b So = (21) 2.5 (376)
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #16 - 03/02/19 at 23:31:47
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Yeah, that's the other one I thought of ...but Hübner-Kasparov kind of stands out in terms of early knight action.
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1070126

(Incidentally, the now 70-year-old Hübner is still doing some chess stuff, e.g. he gave a simul yesterday.  Lost to a couple of ~2000 players.)
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #15 - 03/02/19 at 22:57:07
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I thought the exemplar was Polugaevsky - Nezhmetdinov, Sochi 1958: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1111459
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #14 - 03/02/19 at 18:33:59
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tracke wrote on 03/02/19 at 18:20:05:

so Black is forced to play very actively with his knights


I suppose the most classic example being Hübner-Kasparov (...Ne4 thud).
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #13 - 03/02/19 at 18:20:05
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In his forthcoming GM Rep 2B („early april“?!)
GM Boris Avrukh will recommend 3.Nc3 on 20 pages.

I have always considered 3.Nc3 as the most critical try:
positionally it‘s a clear „+=„ due to white‘s space advantage
so Black is forced to play very actively with his knights
to keep a dynamic equilibrium.

Smiley tracke
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #12 - 02/26/19 at 20:56:56
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tony37 wrote on 02/26/19 at 19:32:13:
slightly off-topic, but I discovered that the following bizarre sequence has been used as an original way (a stalemate!) to get a pre-arranged draw:
1. d4 d6 2. Qd2 e5 3. a4 e4 4. h3 f5 5. Qf4 Be7 6. Qh2 Be6 7. Ra3 c5 8. Rg3 Qa5 9. Nd2 Bb3 10. d5 Bh4 11. c4 e3 12. f3 f4
people playing this have to be very good friends because 12... Nf6 is a mate in 7

They have to be good friends with the arbiter too. I get the joke, but prearranging games is still against the rules. If I ever saw this as an arbiter I would score the game as 0 - 0.
  

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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #11 - 02/26/19 at 20:47:18
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There is no way in hell that 3. dxe5 is White advantage. If anything Black is comfortabler here. That c4 by itself has problems, it can cause problems in the endgame with the holes on b4 and d4. If I remember well, the basic plan is to put king on c7 and harass White all over the dark squares like b4, c5 and d4, develop bitchop on e6, knight on d7, almost like autopilot.

I remember how some strong players who like endgames said that they would choose this line for Black since the plans are straightforward with dark square strategy.
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #10 - 02/26/19 at 19:52:40
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Yeah, an old Sam Loyd thing (okay, all Sam Loyd things are old).
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #9 - 02/26/19 at 19:32:13
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slightly off-topic, but I discovered that the following bizarre sequence has been used as an original way (a stalemate!) to get a pre-arranged draw:
1. d4 d6 2. Qd2 e5 3. a4 e4 4. h3 f5 5. Qf4 Be7 6. Qh2 Be6 7. Ra3 c5 8. Rg3 Qa5 9. Nd2 Bb3 10. d5 Bh4 11. c4 e3 12. f3 f4
people playing this have to be very good friends because 12... Nf6 is a mate in 7
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #8 - 02/26/19 at 18:43:31
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 02/26/19 at 18:37:09:
Another chess book! And I am retired from active play!


It's interesting because me too, am retired from active play, yet I am constantly ordering chess books! I think it is because we continue to love chess even if we no longer play in tournaments! But who knows, one day maybe...  Cheesy
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #7 - 02/26/19 at 18:37:09
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mangler wrote on 02/26/19 at 14:37:58:
A Universal Weapon 1.d4 d6 by Vladimir Barsky covers this line. Here is a link to the excerpt.

http://www.chess-stars.com/resources/Modern.pdf

Best answer - 20 pages! I have his Philidor book, but deferred getting this one because I don't have any use for 1.d4 d6 2.Nf3 Bg4, for either color. But I just broke down and ordered it. Another chess book! And I am retired from active play!
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #6 - 02/26/19 at 16:49:48
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RdC wrote on 02/25/19 at 16:39:46:
grandpatzer wrote on 02/25/19 at 16:21:04:
Is White's position that hopeless after 3.dxe5, 3...dxe5 and the Queens exchange?


Engines will score it as a small plus for White, hardly surprising given White's initiative and space.

Fwiw, Stockfish 10 gives a small plus for Black, so I guess the statistics giving Black a huge advantage aren't entirely due to mostly weaker players (happy with a draw) playing 3.dxe5. I have no idea where you see extra space for White
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #5 - 02/26/19 at 14:37:58
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A Universal Weapon 1.d4 d6 by Vladimir Barsky covers this line. Here is a link to the excerpt.

http://www.chess-stars.com/resources/Modern.pdf
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #4 - 02/26/19 at 09:58:24
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grandpatzer wrote on 02/25/19 at 16:21:04:
Are there any good books about the opening 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5, from either side?

There is some coverage in Vigorito's KID section (https://www.chesspublishing.com/content/9/index.htm, see [A40]), but I suppose it will mostly lead to English Opening positions, after 3 Nc3 or 3 Nf3 (where it is classified as [A21]) and has a large ChessPub Guide to itself.
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #3 - 02/26/19 at 02:54:04
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The four pages of coverage in Zude / Hickl (2017) Play 1...d6 Against Everything is not great. They have one annotated game without much depth in the sidelines.
Rahotomaharo - Gharamian, Paris 2015 https://www.365chess.com/view_game.php?g=3949573
1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 dxe5 4.Qxd8+ Kxd8 5.Nf3 f6 6.Nc3 c6 7.Rg1 Be6 8.e3 (helps black, but the authors make no comment) 8...Nh6.

Yrjola / Tella (2001) An Explosive Chess Opening Repertoire for Black have only three pages, but it is much denser. They give as "one of the most critical tries" 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 dxe5 4.Qxd8+ Kxd8 5.Nf3 f6 6.Nc3 Be6 7.b3 c6 8.Rg1! Nd7 (8...h5!?) 9.g4, and quote four game fragments.

I don't think white should play 3.dxe5. The structure favors black, so white is banking on activity and some discomfort to the black king. But if black knows just a little theory then the short-term problems evaporate, after which black can try to gradually assume the strategic initiative. Yrjola / Tella devote 35 pages to 3.Nf3 and 17 pages to 3.Nc3, and there's good reason these moves are more popular than 3.dxe5.

Similar structures come up in various openings. Everyone knows the King's Indian exchange variations, but there is also:
  1. 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.cxd5 Nxd5 4.Nf3 g6 5.e4 Nxc3 6.dxc3 Qxd1+ 7.Kxd1.
    See Mednis (1983) From the Opening into the Endgame
  2. 1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.c4 d6 4.Nc3 e5 5.dxe5 dxe5 6.Qxd8+ Kxd8.
    See Hillarp Persson (2005) Tiger's Modern
  3. 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d6 3.Nc3 e5 4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Qxd8+ Kxd8.
    See Cherniaev / Prokuronov (2011) The New Old Indian

Edited:
Corrected a mispelled author's name.
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #2 - 02/25/19 at 16:48:19
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One thing I'm put in mind of is the fairly recent Hickl/Zude "...d6 against everything" book.  However it apparently has only ~4 pages on 3. de de 4. Qxd8+ Kxd8.
  
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Re: Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
Reply #1 - 02/25/19 at 16:39:46
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grandpatzer wrote on 02/25/19 at 16:21:04:
Is White's position that hopeless after 3.dxe5, 3...dxe5 and the Queens exchange?


Engines will score it as a small plus for White, hardly surprising given White's initiative and space. There's obviously a wide choice of continuations, but no clear main line approach.

The player who is better at middle games without queens and building up pressure is the one likely to win.
  
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Books about 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5?
02/25/19 at 16:21:04
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Are there any good books about the opening 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5, from either side? It seems to me that recently most 1.d4 repertoire books advocate 2.e4 for White after 1...d6, avoiding the 2.c4 e5 move order. Is White's position that hopeless after 3.dxe5, 3...dxe5 and the Queens exchange?
  
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