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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New accelerated Dragon books (Read 6625 times)
Syzygy
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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #58 - 12/30/19 at 03:26:16
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 12/30/19 at 02:37:23:
Syzygy wrote on 12/29/19 at 22:15:04:
On the other hand, the Accelerated Dragon lines with Nc3 seem to be holding up quite well. It would be interesting to pair the Accelerated Dragon with the Najdorf so that Black can answer 2. Nc3 with 2...Nc6 without worrying too much about move order issues.


How is this possible if the Najdorf requires the knight to be still on b8.


As you point out, Najdorf players are usually restricted to answering 2. Nc3 with 2...d6. This is because after 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Nf3 or 3. Nge2 White can trick Black into playing a Sicilian other than the Najdorf.

What I meant is that after 3. Nf3 or 3. Nge2 Black can happily play 3...g6, knowing that he has avoided the Maroczy Bind if White heads for an Open Sicilian after all. This allows a Najdorf player to answer 2. Nc3 with 2...Nc6 as long as he is willing to learn the extra Accelerated Dragon theory.
  
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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #57 - 12/30/19 at 02:37:23
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Syzygy wrote on 12/29/19 at 22:15:04:
On the other hand, the Accelerated Dragon lines with Nc3 seem to be holding up quite well. It would be interesting to pair the Accelerated Dragon with the Najdorf so that Black can answer 2. Nc3 with 2...Nc6 without worrying too much about move order issues.


How is this possible if the Najdorf requires the knight to be still on b8.
  
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Syzygy
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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #56 - 12/29/19 at 22:15:04
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After 17...d5 18. e5 it doesn't look like Black has any significant counterplay. Instead, Black has a weak pawn structure and White has the ability to create an outside passed pawn on the a-file.

Nevertheless, 14. Rac1 seems pleasant for White as well. One of the reasons I've moved on from the Accelerated Dragon proper is because the Maroczy Bind structures are +/= in so many different ways.

On the other hand, the Accelerated Dragon lines with Nc3 seem to be holding up quite well. It would be interesting to pair the Accelerated Dragon with the Najdorf so that Black can answer 2. Nc3 with 2...Nc6 without worrying too much about move order issues.
  
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Stigma
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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #55 - 12/29/19 at 11:22:58
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MNb wrote on 12/29/19 at 07:12:43:
IM very well demonstrates how to tackle the Accelerated Dragon with the Maroczy Wall in his book on the English.

You mean IM Cummings, right?
  

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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #54 - 12/29/19 at 08:00:09
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MNb wrote on 12/29/19 at 07:12:43:
Instead simply 14.Rac1, there is no arguing with 21½ out of 30 games (and only two wins for Black).

At any rate it hearkens back to such ancient sources as Silman/Donaldson, NCO (Nunn) and ECO which regarded that as slightly better for White.
  
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MNb
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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #53 - 12/29/19 at 07:12:43
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Syzygy wrote on 12/28/19 at 23:55:46:
14. Ne2!? is already challenging. For instance, 14...b5 15. cxb5 axb5 16. Nxd4 exd4 17. Bf4 +/=.

Perhaps, but Black immediately starts counterplay with 17....d5.
Instead simply 14.Rac1, there is no arguing with 21½ out of 30 games (and only two wins for Black).

IM Cummings (thanks, Stigma) very well demonstrates how to tackle the Accelerated Dragon with the Maroczy Wall in his book on the English.
« Last Edit: 12/29/19 at 15:38:33 by MNb »  

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Syzygy
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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #52 - 12/28/19 at 23:55:46
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After 9...Nxd4 10. Bxd4 a6, what is wrong with the simple 11. O-O? 11...Be6 transposes back into the dangerous lines with f3-f4, and plans involving 11...Bd7 are quite passive.

In the Gurgenidze with ...a5 and 11. Na4, what is wrong with the simple 11...Be6 12. Rc1? This seems to lead to a definite positional advantage for White. It also appears to me that 15. exf5 poses concrete problems for Black in the main line.

In the lines with 7...Ng4, 10. Bd3 O-O 11. O-O d6 12. Qd2 Be6 13. b3 a6 14. Ne2!? is already challenging. For instance, 14...b5 15. cxb5 axb5 16. Nxd4 exd4 17. Bf4 +/=.

Finally, I'm not even sure what Black is supposed to do to equalize against the h3 lines, prompting me to believe that Be3+h3 is one of the most dangerous approaches to the KID as well due to this transpositional possibility.
  
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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #51 - 12/28/19 at 19:07:10
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Also, I believe I've discovered a "solution" to Shaw's repertoire (i.e. a way to forcibly make a draw if Black is precise, not that that's necessarily appealing in practice). So after 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6 3 d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 Nc6 5 c4 Nf6 6 Nc3 d6 7 f3 Bg7 (if we assume that playing the Gurgenidze with ...a5 isn't so good now that White has gone f3 instead of Be2, which of course is potentially debatable) 8 Be3 0-0 9 Be2 Nxd4 10 Bxd4 a6!? (I initially wanted to play 10...Be6 [+ ...Qa5, etc.], now that White is committed to an early f2-f3, but Shaw's idea of playing f3-f4 anyway is quite strong, as far as I can tell) 11 Qd2 Be6 12 Nd5 b5!? 13 cxb5 axb5 14 Bxb5 Bxd5 15 exd5, when Shaw looks at 15...Bh6!?, which requires White to be precise but should be good for him, and the computer points out 15...Ne4!, when it looks like best play is a forcing sequence to a Rook ending that should end in a draw.
  
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mn
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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #50 - 12/28/19 at 18:00:09
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Nguyen in his Chessable course points out that in Shaw's main line with 16 0-0-0, Black can win his pawn back with 16...fxe4 17 Bxe4 Nxc4! 18 Nxc4 Qc8 with a roughly equal position. I'm not so sure about 15 exf5 for Black, though.
  
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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #49 - 12/28/19 at 11:18:35
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I can add that Shaws book and Hyper Accelerated book do not met  completely in Ng4 line, Shaw even wrote this in hes book but gave no details on concrete moves only wrote transpositions.  As I recall, in that line Shaw only covered a Qa5 move in a position where Hyper Accelerated book moved Qd7 in a similar position (tricky transpositions).

EDIT. Shaws books did on the other hand look very  convincing vs Gurgenitze where he plays f3 instead of Be2 and plays Na4 vs a5.
« Last Edit: 12/28/19 at 13:59:41 by MNb »  
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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #48 - 12/27/19 at 21:57:36
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Stigma wrote on 12/27/19 at 16:13:25:
XChess1971 wrote on 12/26/19 at 23:14:30:
PatzerNoster wrote on 12/26/19 at 20:34:07:
@XChess1971:
Thank you for the information!

Is there a separate chapter with updates, or is the structure identical, just with the new games/lines inserted?

The second approach is of course most common, but in recent times I have seen examples of the first one.


Well besides the theory there is an additional with new games. That's what it looks. Even more games besides the mentioned by me.

@XChess1971: I've heard about the new additional games in the 2nd edition (which I believe were analyzed by Edouard). But are there also updates in the regular theory chapters between the 1st and 2nd editions? It's not entirely clear from your posts.


I didn't get the chance to review the whole book. I just received it. I need to take some time and compare. But it looks to me that the Anti Hyper Accelerated Dragon is well checked here or so, Also the My System against Bc4 looks worth it. The Breyer variation (7...Ng4) looks to have come with new ideas.
Once I deepen a bit I will be able to tell better.
  
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Stigma
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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #47 - 12/27/19 at 21:18:46
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mn wrote on 12/27/19 at 20:21:39:
Stigma wrote on 12/27/19 at 16:22:23:
I'm looking mainly at the Gurgenidze lines as replies to the Maroczy Bind, maybe with some tricky early ...Qb6 or ...Qa5+ lines as backups / surprise weapons.



I agree that the ...a5 Gurgenidze lines look quite solid, although this new Kf2 idea seems kinda annoying. What's the status of the Classical Gurgenidze with ...Be6 and ...Qa5 supposed to be these days?

I don't really know, it's the ...a5 lines I've been trying to learn.

I guess the big question with ...Be6 and ...Qa5 is about the standard endgame/queenless middlegame line where White is usually thought to be playing for two results - whether Black is actually holding there in the end. And if he is, whether White has other promising tries to fall back on.

Edit: Checking recent sources against the Be6/Qa5 Gurgenidze, Shaw gives an interesting delayed Be2 move order against it: 7.f3 Nxd4 8.Qxd4 Bg7 9.Be3 0-0 10.Qd2 Be6 11.Rc1 Qa5 12.Bd3, when the maneouvre Ne2-d4 will often be strong. Georgiev/Semkov is a bit disorganized and mention lots of lines, but they seem to like White's setup with Bg5 and Qe3 or Qd2, where tactical ideas with e4-e5 and f4-f5 are always in the air. They also opine that Black can equalize in the queenless main line, which on the other hand is Neiksans' recommendation for White.
« Last Edit: 12/27/19 at 23:46:02 by Stigma »  

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mn
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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #46 - 12/27/19 at 20:21:39
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Stigma wrote on 12/27/19 at 16:22:23:
I'm looking mainly at the Gurgenidze lines as replies to the Maroczy Bind, maybe with some tricky early ...Qb6 or ...Qa5+ lines as backups / surprise weapons.



I agree that the ...a5 Gurgenidze lines look quite solid, although this new Kf2 idea seems kinda annoying. What's the status of the Classical Gurgenidze with ...Be6 and ...Qa5 supposed to be these days?
  
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Stigma
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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #45 - 12/27/19 at 16:22:23
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I bought the 1st edition of Panjwani's book originally, and haven't upgraded to the 2nd yet.

My concern is theory seems to have moved on in the Maroczy Bind, even since the 2nd edition. In the traditional main line there's not only the fashionable 10.h3 that's already mentioned here, but also John Shaw's move order with an early f2-f3 hoping to castle queenside. And in the 7...Ng4 line there are new attempts to provide answers for White in theoretical works by Shaw, Georgiev/Semkov and Neiksans. So even there the Panjwani 2nd edition may already be outdated.

I'm looking mainly at the Gurgenidze lines as replies to the Maroczy Bind, maybe with some tricky early ...Qb6 or ...Qa5+ lines as backups / surprise weapons.

Probably if I do get the 2nd edition anyway, it will be mainly for the 5.Nc3 lines, and especially Panjwani's so-called "My System" (the Acc-Dragon-Taimanov hybrid). Any hints about how much new material there is on that (and other 5.Nc3 lines) between the 1st and 2nd editions?
  

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Re: New accelerated Dragon books
Reply #44 - 12/27/19 at 16:13:25
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XChess1971 wrote on 12/26/19 at 23:14:30:
PatzerNoster wrote on 12/26/19 at 20:34:07:
@XChess1971:
Thank you for the information!

Is there a separate chapter with updates, or is the structure identical, just with the new games/lines inserted?

The second approach is of course most common, but in recent times I have seen examples of the first one.


Well besides the theory there is an additional with new games. That's what it looks. Even more games besides the mentioned by me.

@XChess1971: I've heard about the new additional games in the 2nd edition (which I believe were analyzed by Edouard). But are there also updates in the regular theory chapters between the 1st and 2nd editions? It's not entirely clear from your posts.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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