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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 (Read 5679 times)
mn
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #22 - 05/14/19 at 18:51:50
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Isn't 4 d4 exd4 5 Nxd4 a bit better for White?
  
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grandpatzer
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #21 - 05/14/19 at 18:43:09
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I thought that 4.c3 was the only "refutation" of 3...d6. And, on another note, a little book on the rather annoying 3...d6 defence to 3.Bc4 would be very interesting!
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #20 - 05/14/19 at 18:12:23
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RE: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4 d6 5.c3 dxc3 6.Nxc3 Nf6
(or 4.c3 dxc3 5.Nxc3 d6 6.Bc4, or 3.Bc4, or indeed 2...d6).

I dunno about these days. I haven't looked at it carefully in ages. If it is no longer considered better for white, I didn't get the memo. But this "better" is a slippery word. It wasn't that white was getting a clear advantage theoretically, it was more like sufficient compensation, therefore a little dangerous for black. Many of my old Goering Gambit sources gave +=, but may have been biased towards white.
Edited:
Hang on, I shouldn't be replying blindfold while at work. 6...Nf6 is right out, black has to play 6...Be6, and that's the line which is "sufficient compensation", possibly +=.

kylemeister, what old 6...Nf6 line are you referring to?
  
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #19 - 05/14/19 at 15:34:15
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 05/14/19 at 14:14:51:
I have played 3...d6 a lot, both via the Italian and more often via the Philidor (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bc4 Nc6), with rather good results. The only way to punish it is by playing sharply 4.d4! exd4 5.c3!. Just about nobody does that, though.

What, is the old line (by transposition) 5...dc 6. Nxc3 Nf6 supposed to be better for White these days?
  
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #18 - 05/14/19 at 14:14:51
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Delchev also covers the move order 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4. From the pdf sample http://www.chess-stars.com/resources/Bc4_contents.pdf
Quote:
Alexander Delchev wrote:
My repertoire would not be complete without a rather huge chapter on the Hungarian Defence.

I have played 3...d6 a lot, both via the Italian and more often via the Philidor (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bc4 Nc6), with rather good results. The only way to punish it is by playing sharply 4.d4! exd4 5.c3!. Just about nobody does that, though.
  
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #17 - 05/14/19 at 12:40:10
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Seeley wrote on 05/14/19 at 09:59:59:
You could try Bc4 Against The Open Games by Alexander Delchev, a Chess Stars book from 2018. This repertoire starts with 2.Bc4 to avoid the Petroff, so there's a bit of extra material to deal with what happens if Black plays ...c6 rather than ...Nc6, but the bulk of the book transposes back into the lines you want to see covered.


Sure, but I'd need some ideas on how to gain advantage vs. the solid 3...Be7 (Hungarian Defence) and the weaker (but often played by amateurs) 3...d6 too. In practice I find it difficult to win games vs. these minor defences.
  
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #16 - 05/14/19 at 09:59:59
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grandpatzer wrote on 05/14/19 at 09:34:31:
Apart from this mixing of relatively old books, I strongly feel that we need a good, modern,  repertoire book on 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 from White's point of view, updated with current lines vs all Black options...

You could try Bc4 Against The Open Games by Alexander Delchev, a Chess Stars book from 2018. This repertoire starts with 2.Bc4 to avoid the Petroff, so there's a bit of extra material to deal with what happens if Black plays ...c6 rather than ...Nc6, but the bulk of the book transposes back into the lines you want to see covered.
  
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #15 - 05/14/19 at 09:34:31
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Apart from this mixing of relatively old books, I strongly feel that we need a good, modern,  repertoire book on 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 from White's point of view, updated with current lines vs all Black options...
  
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #14 - 05/12/19 at 14:33:04
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RoleyPoley wrote on 05/12/19 at 13:02:58:
I didnt think it was standard practice? (I have no knowledge of the trade so could be completely wrong). Given chess books tend to not to have great selling potential, i thought it was rare that they have multiple print runs - especially as there are usually other books coming out on the same openings soon enough. I think Everyman's idea of repackaging in this way is a great idea - but perhaps a bit too late considering how old these titles are.

I was referring to book publishing in general rather than chess-book publishing specifically. Apologies for not making that clear.

The point you make about it being a bit late for this Everyman release is a pertinent one. Buying, say, the eight Adrian Mole books bundled together for just over £20 is one thing, as their lack of topicality isn't important. Chess theory has moved on a lot since the original Everyman titles were published, though, and I wonder how many people will be interested in buying books that are so far behind the times. It's not entirely clear from the OP's link what format this bundle will be released in. Printing and distribution costs are not insignificant, so this would be a bit of a gamble if Everyman are indeed having new copies printed. If the titles are being bundled together as e-books, however, then the extra costs are negligible, I'd imagine, so there's every reason to give this a go in the hope of generating a few sales.
  
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #13 - 05/12/19 at 13:02:58
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Seeley wrote on 05/12/19 at 00:44:04:
FreeRepublic wrote on 05/11/19 at 23:40:43:
I liked Pinski's work on the Italian game. He has some personality, and some opinions. I enjoyed reading it and playing through some of the games. I suspect he has changed his opinions somewhat in the intervening years. The pianisimo has really taken off. I simply hope this will be a real update and not just a mashing together of past work.

Repackaging old stock in this way and effectively selling it off at a reduced price is standard practice in the trade, so I strongly suspect the publisher has simply bundled together the original editions of the books. If these were updated versions, we'd surely be told so. I have no inside information, though, so I might be wrong in this case.


I didnt think it was standard practice? (I have no knowledge of the trade so could be completely wrong). Given chess books tend to not to have great selling potential, i thought it was rare that they have multiple print runs - especially as there are usually other books coming out on the same openings soon enough. I think Everyman's idea of repackaging in this way is a great idea - but perhaps a bit too late considering how old these titles are.
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #12 - 05/12/19 at 03:33:42
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I can confirm the CK+Slav combobook wasn't updated, so this one probably wasn't either. Fair enough I guess.
  
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #11 - 05/12/19 at 00:44:04
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FreeRepublic wrote on 05/11/19 at 23:40:43:
I liked Pinski's work on the Italian game. He has some personality, and some opinions. I enjoyed reading it and playing through some of the games. I suspect he has changed his opinions somewhat in the intervening years. The pianisimo has really taken off. I simply hope this will be a real update and not just a mashing together of past work.

Repackaging old stock in this way and effectively selling it off at a reduced price is standard practice in the trade, so I strongly suspect the publisher has simply bundled together the original editions of the books. If these were updated versions, we'd surely be told so. I have no inside information, though, so I might be wrong in this case.
  
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #10 - 05/11/19 at 23:40:43
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I liked Pinski's work on the Italian game. He has some personality, and some opinions. I enjoyed reading it and playing through some of the games. I suspect he has changed his opinions somewhat in the intervening years. The pianisimo has really taken off. I simply hope this will be a real update and not just a mashing together of past work.
  
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #9 - 05/06/19 at 14:39:02
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I also thought Pinski's coverage of the Italian Game was too overly dismissive of White's prospects, and this goes for the closed lines with d2-d3 that have become popular at the top levels recently, as well as the open sidelines with 4.d4, 4.0-0 Nf6 5.d4 and 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.e5 and 6.0-0.  A very rare critical review of John Elburg's mentioned that after 4.d4 Bxd4 5.Nxd4 Nxd4 he only gave the inferior 6.f4, rather than 6.0-0.
  
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Re: A Complete Guide to 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4
Reply #8 - 05/06/19 at 08:09:34
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Stigma wrote on 05/04/19 at 16:10:09:
Surely they meant to pair the Italian/Evans book with the Two Knights' book? Mixing the Four Knights in there doesn't make much sense.


Yes, it's clearly a mistake. I've emailed them about it.

As for bundling up old stock: it's just a way of selling it, isn't it, which seems fair enough to me. But given that's the case, there's no point to this thread really.
  

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