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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire (Read 9414 times)
LeeRoth
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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #30 - 05/12/19 at 17:50:44
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1.a3 g6! spoils the fun.

If it’s ok to burn a move — which won’t be exactly reversed — then 0-0 and Kh1 might be a way to go.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #29 - 05/11/19 at 17:45:54
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Kind of funny that Velimirovic played 1. a3 (Anderssen's Opening) a number of times.  (His games with it against Adorjan and Timman were cited by Larsen in the first edition of ECO, forty years ago.)
  
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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #28 - 05/11/19 at 17:26:43
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ErictheRed wrote on 05/11/19 at 16:52:51:
I was going to seriously suggest 1.a3!?.  If you must play a Black opening as White, at least do it with a useful move thrown in. 


Then what is Black follows with 1...a6?
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #27 - 05/11/19 at 16:52:51
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I was going to seriously suggest 1.a3!?.  If you must play a Black opening as White, at least do it with a useful move thrown in.
  
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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #26 - 05/11/19 at 07:54:52
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If you really want to follow this path I would suggest starting with 1.a3.

This is at least moderately useful in most Philidor/Old Indian set-ups and since Black sometimes plays ...a7-a5 in these openings you can lose a tempo later with a3-a4 Wink
  
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MNb
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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #25 - 05/10/19 at 08:42:44
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ReneDescartes wrote on 05/10/19 at 02:01:22:
try playing 1.d3 and 2.e3 in hopes of provoking ...e5,

The other way round allows you to invite the From Gambit and indirectly the King's Gambit: 1.e3 f5 2.e4.
  

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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #24 - 05/10/19 at 03:13:35
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 05/10/19 at 01:34:56:
Leon_Trotsky wrote on 05/10/19 at 00:50:12:
Some people simply have higher performance as Black than White.
Name one.


Me  Cheesy
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #23 - 05/10/19 at 02:01:22
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Some players really fear the French. I know quite a bit of French theory and might, against some classical e4 player who hates the French, try playing 1.d3 and 2.e3 in hopes of provoking ...e5, in order to answer that move with d3-d4. Once Black plays ...e5, I would almost certainly land in a real French reversed of some sort to torture my opponent's Francophobia. A classical player would (as I would) even likely go ...e5 and ...d5 only to be shocked with a main line French. Of course, Black could answer with 1...c5 or a Hippopotamus or anything else, but still the attempt might actually be useful against such an ooponent (as a one-off psych trick).
  
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heavypieces
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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #22 - 05/10/19 at 01:43:07
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Timely for me to stumble across this thread. I have recently adopted the Davies ‘busy person’s’ repertoire mentioned below (sans his ‘big clamp’ idea against the French, which I don’t really like) and I have been enjoying it. Surprised it works, but then as Black I don’t mind going 1.e4 d6 2.d4 c6 3.f4 d5!? to enter Gurg territory.

Anyway, I notice that Davies does not attempt to lose a tempo when entering the reversed Philidor but rather suggests that white plays interesting move orders such as 1.e4 e5 2.nf3 nc6 3.c3 d5 and now 4.d3, offering to enter a queenless middlegame. He further states that he considers the best move order in his system to be 1.e4 for white because he thinks the small annoyance of dealing with a scandinavian, taking white out of the reversed Philidor, is not as bad for white as the options and flexibility granted to black after say, 1.e3 and or 1.c3. I think his opinion is well worth heeding in this regard.

On another note, thanks to the poster who mentioned the new NIC book on these systems, terribly excited by it and will brace myself for the inevitable NIC publication delays.

[Edited to correct typos]
« Last Edit: 05/10/19 at 04:45:39 by heavypieces »  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #21 - 05/10/19 at 01:34:56
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 05/10/19 at 00:50:12:
Some people simply have higher performance as Black than White.
Name one.
  
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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #20 - 05/10/19 at 00:50:12
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I see no problem with losing tempo. Some people simply have higher performance as Black than White.

Just like a reversed Philidor, a reversed Pirc would be interesting. Some even say that a reversed Dutch (i.e. Bird) would be even better if White could lose tempo and play it against 1...d5 rather than other moves.  Cheesy
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #19 - 05/10/19 at 00:20:53
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gillbod wrote on 05/09/19 at 20:34:13:
All I wanted to do was investigate whether it's possible to have identical white and black repertoires out of curiosity. I thought my OP was quite clear about this, but it seems that people in general want to take the discussion off at a tangent. That's the internet for you, I guess.

Well, I think the issue is that literally nobody else here would ever purposely give away a tempo just so they could be black instead of white. For other reasons, rarely, but for that reason, never. So instead of discussing the topic you proposed, they are discussing more or less related topics that it makes them think of, that perhaps have more interest for them. The only comments that will address your question directly are highly likely to be negative. Quite predictable.

In the opening, it's nice to move-order your opponent. To decide ahead of time to move-order yourself is, hmmm, ... I'm having a hard time coming up with a polite adjective.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #18 - 05/09/19 at 23:48:32
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It's ok, MNb is just being his precise, crusty self, perhaps channeling the spirit of that other fellow mathematician, Kronecker. I love his posts.

We all get caught in a bad mood sometimes--only if we're lucky is it  not recorded anywhere. And look, this is a very silly topic-- somewhat slippery, as well.
  
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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #17 - 05/09/19 at 23:15:13
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mangler wrote on 05/09/19 at 15:36:21:
There is a new book book promising a repertoire with white and black featuring the philidor and old indian. Maybe that is what you are looking for? Looks like you will need to wait till december 2019.

https://www.amazon.com/Side-stepping-Mainline-Theory-Middlegame-Familiar/dp/9056...

Nigel Davies  produced a Chessbase DVD based on the same concept, marketed as "A Busy Person's Opening."
Links:
https://shop.chessbase.com/en/products/a_busy_persons_opening_system
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1258989027

MNb, please be merciful in your critique of this post. I am a sensitive soul, and I have tried my best. Lips Sealed
  

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Re: An exact reversed Philidor/Old Indian repertoire
Reply #16 - 05/09/19 at 20:34:13
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MNb, the totality of what I wrote to you was:

gillbod wrote on 05/09/19 at 15:59:32:
As black we may well have a repertoire with 1.d3 e5 and 1.e3 e5. So against both your moves white could simply play 1.e3 and 2.e4.


Meeting flank openings from white with ...e5 is entirely standard for a Philidor/Old Indian based repertoire. I did not feel I was being offensive in writing this, but you clearly took offence, so I apologise.

Yet your replies to my posts have included:

MNb wrote on 05/09/19 at 16:12:24:
You strongly give the impression that you're not interested in a sincere discussion based on facts.


MNb wrote on 05/09/19 at 10:21:04:
Frankly I'm quite surprised you didn't realize this yourself.


MNb wrote on 05/09/19 at 16:12:24:
You're shifting goal posts.


MNb wrote on 05/09/19 at 10:21:04:
It isn't possible either with 1.d3 or 1.e3 because of 1...d6 and 1...e6.


MNb wrote on 05/09/19 at 16:12:24:
Btw 1...d6 and 1...e6 or not my moves.


All I wanted to do was investigate whether it's possible to have identical white and black repertoires out of curiosity. I thought my OP was quite clear about this, but it seems that people in general want to take the discussion off at a tangent. That's the internet for you, I guess.
  
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