I think 1.d4 players have done a sterling  propaganda job. Really significant fear, for objectively very tiny advantages, especially in club players playing black. 
Examples like game 3 of Nepo v Ding match https://www.chess.com/news/view/fide-world-chess-championship-2023-game-3 show how solid black's position is. Combining ideas of exchanging black squared bishops as in  Ntirlis' QGD book, with playing b5 and using knight on queen-side to neutralise Botvinnik plan of f3 and e4. 
There are also ideas like 1.d4 d5 2c4 e6 3Nc3 Nf6 4Bg5 Nb-d7 5Nf3 c6 aiming for Cambridge Springs 6pxp e6xd5 7e3 h6 8Bh5 -g5 9Bg3 Nh5 winning the two bishops but allowing king-side pawn structure damage. Played in recent candidates Gukesh v Caruana 2024.

Keano wrote on 01/21/22 at 21:08:11:


Agreed.

Curiously enough, the line given in Reply # 18:

FreeRepublic wrote on 12/07/21 at 20:03:43:


can also be found in Cristof Sielecki's short and sweet Chessable line Queen's Gambit #2, which I only recently discovered. I should give credit to Stockfish for some of the analysis I posted. Perhaps Sielecki uses Stockfish also! Sielecki advances "15...c5! etc." as his primary continuation.

I think there is an acceptable move order where black can save ...h6 to the last minute. For example, one could choose to play ...h6 in response to white posting his knight on f3, and refrain from playing ...h6 if the knight goes to e2. Once again, a matter of taste.

TonyRo wrote on 12/06/21 at 19:09:32:


Indeed.

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cd5 ed5 5. Bg5 c6 6. e3 h6 7. Bh4 Be7 8. Bd3 O-O 9. Qc2 Re8 10. Nge2 a5!?
The idea seems to be to follow-up with ...b5 at some point.
11. O-O Nbd7 12. f3 not forced, but somewhat thematic for Nge2 lines.
12...b5 13. e4 b4 14. Na4 de4 15. fe4 Ne4 16. Be7 Qe7 17. Qxc6 Nd2!? unclear. Black's rook hangs, but he threatens Qe3ch winning the bishop in addition to the rook.
Is this any good? Unless your name is Alekhine, you might want to consult an engine.
18. Qa8 Nf6 19. Nf4 Qe3 20. Kh1 Bd7 21. Rfe1 Qe1 22. Re1 Ra8 23. Nb6 Re8 24. Re8 Be8 25. Nfd5 Nd5 26. Nd5 Kf8.
Black is worried that his knight will be trapped.
27. Kg1 Bc6 28. Ne3 g6. Black will play ...f5 and ...Ne4.
Stockfish still favors white a little (SF +23) but I think the game is as equal as it looks.

MNb wrote on 05/23/19 at 07:16:45:


Isn't the endgame after 7 Qf3 Bg6 8 Bxf6 Qxf6 9 Qxf6 gxf6 supposed to be pretty unpleasant for Black, at least in over-the-board games?  At least Flear in his NIC Yearbook review of Karolyi's book seemed skeptical of the line and noted some missing coverage in the book.

FreeRepublic wrote on 05/23/19 at 19:30:57:

That 11...g6, with the idea of ...Ne6 and ...b5, was new to me.  One might wonder how many White players are well-prepared for such a thing.

BeeCaves wrote on 05/22/19 at 17:31:37:


After 8Qc2, Cox and Davies, in their respective books, recommend 8...Nh5. How about Ntirlis?

MNb wrote on 05/23/19 at 07:16:45:

On that historical note, Salov-Andersson continued 12 ...Ng7 13.g4 Bd7 14.Nf3 O-O-O 15.Ne5 Kb8 16.Rc1 Bc8 17.Na4 f6 18.Nf3 Nxa4 19.Qxa4.  Looking at the 32-year-old Informant in my hands, the notes by GM Makarichev (I recall him as a Petroff player, with which he once pummeled Ljubojevic) give 19...g5! 20. Rc3 h5 21. Ra3 a6 22. Rg1 hg 23. hg Rh3 with counterplay on the kingside.

BeeCaves wrote on 05/22/19 at 17:31:37:


Reading between the lines, I assume white wants to avoid 8Qc2 Nh5.

John Cox in his book on the QGD (games 41-44) advocated that black play...Nh5 in this position. White and black often castle queen side. It would be noteworthy if the best white players are avoiding that line. It would almost constitute an endorsement.

After 8h3 (or 8Nge2), I think Black is OK in lines with king-side castling.

BeeCaves wrote on 05/22/19 at 17:31:37:

Incidentally that was a recommendation for White on a ChessBase DVD (by Jonas Lampert, in German) about six months ago.  (A few months before that, there were a few pages on it in Tibor Karolyi's book, for Black.)

edit:  the "few pages" I mentioned doesn't include the old major line which can arise via 8...0-0 9. Qc2 Re8 10. Nf3 Nf8 11. 0-0.  (In that case Karolyi has 11...g6, as did Illingworth in his recommendations for Black in Chess Publishing.)

Not sure if this is the reason Black players are avoiding this, but as someone studying the lines for Black based on Ntirlis' QGD book, I was a bit worried about the lines where White avoids trading dark squared Bishops:

1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 cxd5 exd5 5 Bg5 c6 6 e3 Be7 7 Bd3 Nd7 8 h3!?

White plans to meet ...h6 with Bf4 to avoid Nh5 trading.  Nh5 right away hangs a piece ... if Black tries to castle before Nh5 then Qc2 and Black will still need to play h6 because h7 hangs.

If 8... Ne4 9 Bxe7 Qxe7 10 Bxe4 dxe4 11 Qg4 Nf6 12 Qxg7 Rg8 13 Qh6 Rxg2 14 Nge2 Rg6 15 Qh4 Ntirlis likes the position for White

His solution is 8... h6 9 Bf4 Nb6 10 Nf3 0-0 11 Qc2 Nc4 12 0-0 Re8 13 Rac1 Bd6 ... 

White has a lot of alternatives that aren't analyzed though ... he can play 11 Ne5 prior to ...Nc4, could play 13 Ne2 trying to disrupt the Nc4, he could play Qe2 instead of Qc2, etc.  Comp thinks its +/= ... 

Black's position seems sound enough that eventually he should be okay but maybe White is more pleased with the opening here than say, what White often gets in non-exchange QGD?

So many of those lines, it just feels like Black gets to trade lots of pieces/pawns and as long as he neutralizes slight White initiative, it's totally equal.

This 8 h3 line isn't very common (Ntirlis' line has hardly been played), but Wesley So, Wojtaszek, Eljanov have played it ... 

Leon_Trotsky wrote on 05/15/19 at 22:01:44:


They are, but personally I've given up on it. The cheapo tricks possible in a Kings Indian have more appeal. 

In top level games the vast majority of QGD games are arising via the Nimzo move order or 3...Be7, while in the rare cases 3...Nf6 is played, white players nearly exclusively play the Exchange Variation. However as I understood it black was doing perfectly well in the Exchange? It seems to me that most of the top players are angling for the Nf3 exchange variation rather than the traditional Nge2 stuff (otherwise they wouldn't allow the Nh5 setups? Although of course I can't see into the minds of the elite GMs )