Latest Updates:
Normal Topic Rubinstein at the elite level? (Read 5113 times)
MW
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 274
Joined: 04/20/18
Gender: Male
Re: Rubinstein at the elite level?
Reply #9 - 06/27/19 at 17:06:54
Post Tools
There is currently a very interesting queenside v kingside pawn majority ending being played on the ICCF Live Games website- Berg v Belka.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MW
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 274
Joined: 04/20/18
Gender: Male
Re: Rubinstein at the elite level?
Reply #8 - 06/17/19 at 21:49:36
Post Tools
TonyRo wrote on 06/17/19 at 17:19:47:
I talked to Georg about the Rubinstein quite a bit two years or so ago. The gist of the discussion was that he thought releasing the central tension and centralizing the knight to e4 was less of a concession than allowing the e-pawn to hit e5. He also has faith in the extra e-pawn later.


Really interesting thought...I've always thought the main strategic theme for black as being the counter attacking chances against the white e5,  d4 pawn base....

In saying that I was playing chess when Uhlmann was king of us French players, so I guess he had a huge influence on my thinking. 

Do you think GM Meier may write a book or do a DVD on the Rubinstein one day? He would be able to provide some great insight into the strategic themes and judging by how well Longrock's book has sold there seems to be a market for it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1825
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: Rubinstein at the elite level?
Reply #7 - 06/17/19 at 17:19:47
Post Tools
I talked to Georg about the Rubinstein quite a bit two years or so ago. The gist of the discussion was that he thought releasing the central tension and centralizing the knight to e4 was less of a concession than allowing the e-pawn to hit e5. He also has faith in the extra e-pawn later.

Of course stylistically Georg is also able to outplay people in simple positions more than others I think. After working with him for a year or two I was always constantly impressed at his ability to always find small ways to improve and to make me think about simple positions with more nuance. Rarely are they as simple as one might think!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Leon_Trotsky
Senior Member
****
Offline


Кто был никем — тот станет
всем!

Posts: 499
Location: Barcelona, CAT
Joined: 08/11/17
Gender: Male
Re: Rubinstein at the elite level?
Reply #6 - 06/17/19 at 06:09:48
Post Tools
MW wrote on 06/17/19 at 03:42:42:
Meier aside, I think elite GM's possibly feel the opening is a little passive and "if white only wants to play for a draw then it is really not that difficult"


It is my opinion only of course, but it looks like Meier is the only sane one here. Is true Rubinstein variation looks passive, but is it really any more passive than that QGD line where Black accepts a horrible pawn structure with double isolated f-pawns in endgame ¿ Rubinstein is not popular at elite level, yet the latter is. Kramnik, and countless other GMs like that line. That QGD endgame line was also even recommended by Cox in his QGD book and Collins in his QGD DWD.

MW wrote on 06/17/19 at 03:42:42:
One thing I have found (regardless of the opposition) is that you need to be a fairly good endgame player and have a good understanding of endgames where white has a 3-2 queenside pawn majority v your 4-3 on the kingside. There are a number of games in Langrock's book that are helpful pointers in this regard.


I think converse is true as well. If you want to learn endgame better, Rubinstein playing as Black would surely help you with your technique. Often Black has no weaknesses in his camp, so this helps quite a lot.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MW
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 274
Joined: 04/20/18
Gender: Male
Re: Rubinstein at the elite level?
Reply #5 - 06/17/19 at 03:42:42
Post Tools
Meier aside, I think elite GM's possibly feel the opening is a little passive and "if white only wants to play for a draw then it is really not that difficult" Langrock page 87.

I see a big plus in playing the Rubinstein when you are playing a much stronger opponent particularly if they are good at calculating in complex positions. As Langrock says... "if you are not good at calculating complicated variations then in the Rubinstein you usually do not have to do this as the positions that arise tend to be relatively clear cut".

One thing I have found (regardless of the opposition) is that you need to be a fairly good endgame player and have a good understanding of endgames where white has a 3-2 queenside pawn majority v your 4-3 on the kingside. There are a number of games in Langrock's book that are helpful pointers in this regard.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10750
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Rubinstein at the elite level?
Reply #4 - 06/16/19 at 05:40:17
Post Tools
Two quotes from IM Langrock's book on the Rubinstein:

Black is "playing the Rubinstein to equalize fully".
"In this line White is looking for an endgame initiative. He will get this indeed, but I believe that in the resulting endgame Black can equalize with exact play."

A game Carlsen-Meier would be interesting for theory. However two years ago the WCh avoided the Rubinstein and preferred 3.exd5.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Leon_Trotsky
Senior Member
****
Offline


Кто был никем — тот станет
всем!

Posts: 499
Location: Barcelona, CAT
Joined: 08/11/17
Gender: Male
Re: Rubinstein at the elite level?
Reply #3 - 06/15/19 at 19:48:17
Post Tools
Meier beat Anand this year with Rubinstein. It actually looks quite interesting. I believe that it is not as popular because Black usually wants to play his specialty (Winawer or Classical) against 3. Cc3. Against Tarrasch, 3...c5 basically equalises immediately.

Even so, those lines are very theoretical. I would play Rubinstein only against the Tarrasch. It is reminiscent of the Caro-Kann Smyslow line. Theoretically nothing wrong with it, simply not popular.

Also, fashion must be mentioned. Those elite GMs are obsessed with 1...e5 and drawing with Black. The Berlin Wall accomplishes this very easily. I would not be surprised if those elite GMs do not play Rubinstein, because they think entire French Defence is somehow worse than 1...e5.

One should not choose openings based on what elite GMs like  Cheesy
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Confused_by_Theory
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 640
Location: Europe
Joined: 05/13/15
Gender: Male
Re: Rubinstein at the elite level?
Reply #2 - 06/15/19 at 19:15:45
Post Tools
Hi.

Well. Here is what I think:

First the super strong players would consider the need to be prepared to play the advance as black (+some sidelines).

Then they would consider how much work would be required in the main variations of the Rubinstein. While this may not be incredibly much in principle (it doesn't strike me as a theory heavy opening) I think the main focus would be how much work would be required against mainly 2700+ opposition. For this I think the workload goes up very much regardless of opening.

But why would you mainly study the Rubinstein for use against really strong players? I think because playing the Rubinstein to get chances against lower rateds would not seem like an obvious fit. If say an ideal e4-e5 game against a lower rated involves a lot of stability for black, manouvering, timed changes in structure and things like that (where strong players should be stronger). If you're good in the Rubinstein, either by general skill or having studied, you will likely get in c5 or e5 nice and early; although afterwards you will basically have less structure to work with when it comes to outplaying the other guy.

Then I guess most would consider if the sunk time/effort cost of learning the stuff at a 2700 level would be worth it compared to alternatives. Presumably not many think so. Meier (E2624) does I presume but I think he can always use it in team-play events (where a solid line with black is useful). When he actually does face 2700's or near that level the line could be used as well. Greater experience, translating hopefully to less need for preparation and thinking in the early stages, could be worth something also against very strong players.

Have a nice evening.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BadDays
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


aspiring patzer

Posts: 44
Location: USA
Joined: 11/25/16
Gender: Male
Re: Rubinstein at the elite level?
Reply #1 - 06/15/19 at 18:40:43
Post Tools
The opening is in decent theoretical shape, but White plays for 2 results in many lines and Black really needs to know his stuff to equalize. It's not actually clear to me why Meier likes to play the Rubinstein.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
stockhausen
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing
so much!

Posts: 42
Joined: 01/19/19
Rubinstein at the elite level?
06/15/19 at 15:54:06
Post Tools
Almost no 2700+ players play the Rubinstein French - it seems that Georg Meier is the highest rated player who uses it for more than a surprise weapon. Why is this? Is the opening in theoretical trouble?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo