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Normal Topic a good/dubious pseudo-Czech Benoni? (Read 373 times)
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Re: a good/dubious pseudo-Czech Benoni?
Reply #6 - 07/08/19 at 22:29:32
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kylemeister wrote on 07/07/19 at 23:42:46:
Well, I wouldn't call Keymer-Carlsen a Czech Benoni; I knew of it being considered a KID (as it was in the latest KID update).  It has come up here in comparison to an "e3 Poison" version in which White loses a tempo.


Is Czech Benoni just with Be7?  I thought of it mostly as the c5/d6/e5 vs c4/d5/e4 pawn structure and Carlsen did use a Benoni-move order, but I guess you are probably right and I am happy to be wrong.

I think the philosophy at least is a bit is a bit similar to my FM friend who always played the Czech Benoni as Black against d4.  He thought it was a horrible opening (for Black!) but didn't want to spend time on chess study and mostly just played team events as a social activity, and so he just played it anyway. 

And he always worse but was a good middle game player (especially in maneuvering positions, he'd try to go Hedgehog setups as Black when d4 wasn't played, via Sicilian Kan or English) and he'd avoid lots of forced opening lines and have a board full of pieces and be quite difficult to play against and usually have good results.
  
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Re: a good/dubious pseudo-Czech Benoni?
Reply #5 - 07/08/19 at 22:11:26
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For original poster, some games to look -- White didn't win them all but was better in opening.  White had Nf3 in all of them so you are a tempo up.

Seems like strong GMs on White side are not in rush to commit their King, g pawn can frequently be put on g3 to stop Nh5-f4, or g4 to gain space and hinder f7-f5.  Eventually you can try to push f2-f4 to break through.  Without King on g1, f7-f5 might not be as strong.

[Event "Zuerich Chess Challenge Rapid"]
[White "Anand, Viswanathan"]
[Black "Aronian, Levon"]
[Site "Zuerich"]
[Round "1"]
[Annotator ""]
[Result "0-1"]
[Date "2014.02.04"]
[WhiteElo "2773"]
[BlackElo "2826"]
[PlyCount "88"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 e5 4. Nc3 d6 5. e4 Nbd7 6. Nf3 Be7 7. g3 0-0 8. Bd3 Nh5 9. Qe2 a6 10. Bd2 g6 11. Kd1 Kh8 12. h3 Ndf6 13. Kc2 Bd7 14. a4 Qc8 15. g4 Ng7 16. Nh2 Ng8 17. f4 exf4 18. Bxf4 f6 19. Nf1 Rf7 20. Ne3 Qf8 21. h4 Bd8 22. Qh2 Bc7 23. h5 g5 24. h6 Ne8 25. Bg3 Ne7 26. Nf5 Ng6 27. a5 Ne5 28. Be2 Bxf5 29. exf5 Qe7 30. Be1 Qd8 31. Ne4 Re7 32. Qg2 b6 33. Bc3 b5 34. cxb5 axb5 35. Bxb5 Bxa5 36. Bc6 Raa7 37. Bxe5 Rxe5 38. Ra4 Nc7 39. Rha1 Na6 40. Nd2 Nb4+ 41. Rxb4 cxb4 42. Nc4 b3+ 43. Kxb3 Ree7 44. Qg3 Qb8+ 0-1


[Event "USA-ch"]
[White "Seirawan, Yasser"]
[Black "Ivanov, Igor Vasilievich"]
[Site "Seattle"]
[Round "7"]
[Annotator ""]
[Result "1-0"]
[Date "2002.01.11"]
[WhiteElo "2644"]
[BlackElo "2470"]
[PlyCount "55"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 e5 4. Nc3 d6 5. e4 Be7 6. Bd3 0-0 7. h3 Ne8 8. Nf3 g6 9. g4 Ng7 10. Qe2 Kh8 11. Bd2 Nd7 12. 0-0-0 Nf6 13. Rdg1 a6 14. Ng5 Nxd5 15. Nxf7+ Rxf7 16. exd5 Bg5 17. Be3 Bxe3+ 18. fxe3 Bd7 19. Rf1 Rxf1+ 20. Rxf1 Qe7 21. Qf3 Ne8 22. Qf7 Qxf7 23. Rxf7 Rd8 24. Ne4 Kg8 25. Re7 b5 26. cxb5 axb5 27. Rxd7 Rxd7 28. Bxb5 1-0


[Event "Villarrobledo op 21st"]
[White "Van Wely, Loek"]
[Black "Malakhov, Vladimir"]
[Site "Villarrobledo"]
[Round "8"]
[Annotator ""]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Date "2006.08.06"]
[WhiteElo "2675"]
[BlackElo "2690"]
[PlyCount "64"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 e5 4. Nc3 d6 5. e4 Be7 6. Bd3 0-0 7. h3 Ne8 8. Nf3 g6 9. g4 Ng7 10. Rg1 Kh8 11. Qd2 Nd7 12. Qh6 f6 13. Bd2 Rf7 14. h4 Bf8 15. Qe3 Ne8 16. h5 g5 17. Nh2 Nc7 18. Nf1 a6 19. Qe2 Nb6 20. Ne3 Bd7 21. b3 Nc8 22. a3 Qe8 23. f3 b5 24. Kf2 b4 25. axb4 cxb4 26. Na4 a5 27. Nf5 Na6 28. Be3 Bxa4 29. Rxa4 Nc5 30. Bxc5 dxc5 31. Rga1 Rfa7 32. Bc2 Nd6 1/2-1/2

  
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Re: a good/dubious pseudo-Czech Benoni?
Reply #4 - 07/07/19 at 23:42:46
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Well, I wouldn't call Keymer-Carlsen a Czech Benoni; I knew of it being considered a KID (as it was in the latest KID update).  It has come up here in comparison to an "e3 Poison" version in which White loses a tempo.

The line in that blitz game (1. c4 g6 2. Nf3 Bg7 3. d4 c5 4. d5 d6 5. e4 Nf6 6. Nc3 0-0 7. h3 e6 8. Bd3 Na6 and on 9. 0-0 e5) is another one I knew of as classified as a KID.  It was advocated in a Modern Chess opening database by Boris Chatalbashev.

(Edited to add:  after 9. 0-0, ...Nc7 appears in Chatalbashev's database and in a game of his in the new Nimzo/Benoni update.  But 9...e5, played by Carlsen in the blitz game, is also an old book move.)
« Last Edit: 07/08/19 at 15:25:28 by kylemeister »  
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Re: a good/dubious pseudo-Czech Benoni?
Reply #3 - 07/07/19 at 23:00:29
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Magnus Carlsen has tried something like this a bit in casual games, but not with great success

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-vzQOKdxbg

He also played a Czech Benoni against Keymer in Grenke in classical (without losing a tempo, already committed to ...g6) and won.  Probably not the best set up for Black but the game is by no means "over", still plenty of fighting left.
  
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Re: a good/dubious pseudo-Czech Benoni?
Reply #2 - 07/07/19 at 19:21:47
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I notice that one of the people who have played this strange tempo-down Czech Benoni is an IM named Popov.  (But not the IM Popov who has been on both sides of the Czech going back to the 1960s -- e.g., Popov-Hartston from 1980 has appeared in Chess Publishing.)
  
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Re: a good/dubious pseudo-Czech Benoni?
Reply #1 - 07/07/19 at 13:36:42
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nocteus wrote on 07/07/19 at 09:37:51:
Hi, I recently encountered this line in a rapid game: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 c5 4. d5 d6 5. Nc3 e5!?/?!

I am not well versed in this kind of position and failed to 'punish' him. I went for h4, to prevent the exchange ...Bg5. He played for ...f5 and got an active position, where my Nf3 was misplaced. Is the loss of time that important? Is it a decent line/transposition?
Thanks!

Compare it with 'standard' move order 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e5 4.Nc3 d6. In your game you got Nf3 for free, a move which is a part of mainline anyway. One possible plan is e4, Bd3, h3, g4, long castling and kingside expansion.
  
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a good/dubious pseudo-Czech Benoni?
07/07/19 at 09:37:51
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Hi, I recently encountered this line in a rapid game: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 c5 4. d5 d6 5. Nc3 e5!?/?!

I am not well versed in this kind of position and failed to 'punish' him. I went for h4, to prevent the exchange ...Bg5. He played for ...f5 and got an active position, where my Nf3 was misplaced. Is the loss of time that important? Is it a decent line/transposition?
Thanks!
  
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