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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Sicilian Four Knights (Read 1175 times)
Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Sicilian Four Knights
Reply #11 - 11/11/19 at 06:17:33
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Hi.

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 11/10/19 at 01:47:17:
Instead of 21...Ke7, shouldn't black play 21...Rg8(!) ? At first Stockfish thinks 21...Rg8 is 0.2 worse than 21...Ke7, but play out another five moves and it ends with the same evaluation.

Provided the position ends up in a form of hard to break balance, which it looks like after say 21...Rg8 22.Bf3 Bxf3 23.Kxf3 f5, then this may be easier. In the worst case white finds some smart way to continue; if not the game will end up with a draw after some (possibly much) mindless repositioning.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Sicilian Four Knights
Reply #10 - 11/10/19 at 01:47:17
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Instead of 21...Ke7, shouldn't black play 21...Rg8(!) ? At first Stockfish thinks 21...Rg8 is 0.2 worse than 21...Ke7, but play out another five moves and it ends with the same evaluation.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Sicilian Four Knights
Reply #9 - 11/09/19 at 23:42:56
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Hi.

Nice analysis. A bit more detailed than Shaw even Smiley

I liked the relatively sane 17.Bd4!? and would probably play it. Maybe it is not quite sufficient for advantage though. After:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nxc6 bxc6 7.e5 Nd5 8.Ne4 Qc7 9.f4 Qb6 10.c4 Bb4+ 11.Ke2! f5 12.exf6 Nxf6 13.Be3! Qd8 14.Nd6+ Bxd6 15.Qxd6 Bb7 16.Rd1! Rc8 17.Bd4!? c5 18.Bxf6 gxf6 19.Kf2

I think 19...Qc7 looks OK for black with nothing obviously better than: 20.Be2 Qxd6 21.Rxd6 Ke7 (Diagram)

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Now 22.Rd3 allows what looks like the useful 22...Rhg8 (23.g4?? Bxh1 so maybe 23.Rg1 a5 24.Ra3 Ra8 25.Rh3 but now 25...Rg7 and it seems like black has found a decent square for the rook). White should instead likely defend the rook. here though I rather like 22.Rhd1 Rhd8!? with the hope that despite temporary passivity there will be chances to use the c-rook on a8 or b8 and the d-rook on g8 or h8 (most probably a8 and h8 since the isolated pawns may need defending). A plausible line being:
23.R6d3 a5 24.Ra3 Ra8 25.Rh3 Rh8 26.Rh5 f5 and black still looks relatively solid. Maybe white should play g4 at some point to avoid this e.g. 26.g4 but then 26...h6!? 27.Rh5 d6 28.f5 and probably 28...a4 where it seems unclear to me how white's slight pressure will prove meaningful against decent play.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Sicilian Four Knights
Reply #8 - 11/09/19 at 20:51:48
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With this line having been featured in the recent copy-cat scandal now seems like a good time for an update. I've attached a PGN to this post with some analysis. As a non-subscriber I obviously won't get to see the update but hopefully it will at least be useful (if Michael hasn't already written this part, in which case I have only myself to blame for being so slow). Would be interested to hear any thoughts as usual.
  
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Re: Sicilian Four Knights
Reply #7 - 09/02/19 at 16:00:19
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Paddy wrote on 07/22/19 at 19:15:42:
Confused_by_Theory wrote on 07/22/19 at 07:51:24:
TopNotch wrote on 07/22/19 at 07:01:54:
And even more recent than that is Quality Chess's Playing 1.e4 - Sicilian Main Lines which not only compliments, but also expands and in some key lines improves upon Kotronias' seminal work.

Highly recommended reading Smiley

Have a nice day.


Thanks for all the responses and the pointers towards sources!
Chess is always moving on though, and I sense something has been happening... On his recent Sveshnikov DVD L'Ami mentions the 4N move order as viable. And a quick check of the games played in 2019 shows several very strong players trying the 4N: Giri, Navara, Korobov, Ivanchuk, Dreev, Kovalenko ...
And not all Whites have been responding with 6 Nxc6.
So, CPub, let's have an update please!?


Giri played the Sicilian Four Knights again in the recent Sinquefield cup but we didn't learn anything about the critical 6 Nxc6 line; Anand responded with 6 a3 when, as Wahls recommends, Black should be able to reach an entirely playable Scheveningen position.

Dreev and Yu Yangyu have also played the 4N in August, with the latter reviving the line 6 Nxc6 bxc6 7 e5 Nd5 8 Ne4 c5 9 Be2 Bb7 against Ganguly, while the former chose the deeply analysed 8...Qc7 9 f4 Qb6 against Iljiushenok in the Russian Higher League.

So, a Cpub update please!
  
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Paddy
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Re: Sicilian Four Knights
Reply #6 - 07/22/19 at 19:15:42
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 07/22/19 at 07:51:24:
TopNotch wrote on 07/22/19 at 07:01:54:
And even more recent than that is Quality Chess's Playing 1.e4 - Sicilian Main Lines which not only compliments, but also expands and in some key lines improves upon Kotronias' seminal work.

Highly recommended reading Smiley

Have a nice day.


Thanks for all the responses and the pointers towards sources!
Chess is always moving on though, and I sense something has been happening... On his recent Sveshnikov DVD L'Ami mentions the 4N move order as viable. And a quick check of the games played in 2019 shows several very strong players trying the 4N: Giri, Navara, Korobov, Ivanchuk, Dreev, Kovalenko ...
And not all Whites have been responding with 6 Nxc6.
So, CPub, let's have an update please!?
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Sicilian Four Knights
Reply #5 - 07/22/19 at 07:51:24
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TopNotch wrote on 07/22/19 at 07:01:54:
And even more recent than that is Quality Chess's Playing 1.e4 - Sicilian Main Lines which not only compliments, but also expands and in some key lines improves upon Kotronias' seminal work.

Highly recommended reading Smiley

Have a nice day.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Sicilian Four Knights
Reply #4 - 07/22/19 at 07:01:54
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MNb wrote on 07/22/19 at 05:34:07:
Quite more recent (from 2017) is Attacking the Flexible Sicilian by GM Kotronias and IM Semkov. They call it the "Anti-Sveshnikov" and spend two chapters on it. Their conclusion is that White is better. Since then Black's results (both players ELO 2400+) have been quite bad overall.


And even more recent than that is Quality Chess's Playing 1.e4 - Sicilian Main Lines which not only compliments, but also expands and in some key lines improves upon Kotronias' seminal work.
  

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MNb
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Re: Sicilian Four Knights
Reply #3 - 07/22/19 at 05:34:07
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Quite more recent (from 2017) is Attacking the Flexible Sicilian by GM Kotronias and IM Semkov. They call it the "Anti-Sveshnikov" and spend two chapters on it. Their conclusion is that White is better. Since then Black's results (both players ELO 2400+) have been quite bad overall.
  

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Re: Sicilian Four Knights
Reply #2 - 07/22/19 at 02:59:36
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Last time I saw book on this was Meeting 1. e4 by Raetskij. But I think that the book was published almost two decades ago  Cheesy

I thought concensus was 6...Ab4 7. a3 was +=, or is that changed now ¿
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Sicilian Four Knights
Reply #1 - 07/21/19 at 22:31:01
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Paddy wrote on 07/20/19 at 18:42:48:
Can we have a Cpub update on the Sicilian 4N please? Especially the critical line 6 Nxc6 bxc6 7 e5 Nd5 8 Ne4.

If the 4N is fully viable, it's extremely useful, because after 6 Ndb5 Black has a choice between the drawish 6...Bb4, the unclear 6...Bc5 and the solid 6..d6, when the game is likely to reach the Sveshnikov after 7 Bf4 e5 8 Bg5, with Black having avoided not only the Rossolimo but also the trendy 7 Nd5 vs the Sveshnikov. So the viability of Black's game after
6 Nxc6 bxc6 7 e5 Nd5 8 Ne4 is important.


Indeed an update would be useful, but just so you know 6 Nxc6 bxc6 7 e5 Nd5 8 Ne4 is now considered quite good for White and is the reason that top players rarely employ this move-order to reach the Sveshnikov, even though it avoids the pesky Rossolimo. Smiley
  

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Paddy
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Sicilian Four Knights
07/20/19 at 18:42:48
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Can we have a Cpub update on the Sicilian 4N please? Especially the critical line 6 Nxc6 bxc6 7 e5 Nd5 8 Ne4.

If the 4N is fully viable, it's extremely useful, because after 6 Ndb5 Black has a choice between the drawish 6...Bb4, the unclear 6...Bc5 and the solid 6..d6, when the game is likely to reach the Sveshnikov after 7 Bf4 e5 8 Bg5, with Black having avoided not only the Rossolimo but also the trendy 7 Nd5 vs the Sveshnikov.

So the viability of Black's game after 6 Nxc6 bxc6 7 e5 Nd5 8 Ne4 is important.
  
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