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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) slav with f3 (Read 1941 times)
kevinfat
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Re: slav with f3
Reply #10 - 07/27/19 at 19:57:28
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ErictheRed wrote on 07/26/19 at 23:32:42:
I think that it all looks like junk, frankly.  But sure, if White plays well afterwards, it's probably still equal-ish.  On 4.f3, Black can even just go 4...e6 and what is White planning on doing now?  5.e4 de 6.fe and now 6...e5! looks better for Black.  5.cd ed 6.e4 de 7.fe Bb4 is probably at least equal for Black. 

It all just looks pretty bad to me.  Undecided



It seems to me in general white having the first move can play 2nd rate moves and still have a playable position. I guess what I'm saying is that often times people playing against this stuff as black probably emotionally expect to have a devastating advantage which is not the case.
  
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semper_fidelis
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Re: slav with f3
Reply #9 - 07/27/19 at 07:21:37
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stockhausen wrote on 07/26/19 at 08:52:12:
(Sorry in my previous post of course I meant 4.cxd5 cxd5 5.f3)

It is called 'Boor' variation by some sources and received some attention recently (Chessbase DVD, Chessable video).
One line for Black, recommended by computer, is 5...Qb6 with the idea 6.e4 de 7.fe e5 (assessed 0.00 Wink)
  
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kylemeister
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Re: slav with f3
Reply #8 - 07/27/19 at 01:21:31
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ErictheRed wrote on 07/26/19 at 23:32:42:
On 4.f3, Black can even just go 4...e6 and what is White planning on doing now?  5.e4 de 6.fe and now 6...e5! looks better for Black.

That invites comparison to the line 1. d4 d5 2. e4 de 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 c6 5. fe e5 about which Pachman once wrote that it "only" leads to equality, but maybe having the pawn on c4 worsens White's position.

By the way, here's another thread in which the Berliner version came up.
https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1260466936/0

  
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ErictheRed
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Re: slav with f3
Reply #7 - 07/26/19 at 23:32:42
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I think that it all looks like junk, frankly.  But sure, if White plays well afterwards, it's probably still equal-ish.  On 4.f3, Black can even just go 4...e6 and what is White planning on doing now?  5.e4 de 6.fe and now 6...e5! looks better for Black.  5.cd ed 6.e4 de 7.fe Bb4 is probably at least equal for Black. 

It all just looks pretty bad to me.  Undecided

  
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kevinfat
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Re: slav with f3
Reply #6 - 07/26/19 at 19:29:39
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Yah I think that is fine. These ideas remind me of the sicilian line 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4
It looks hilarious taking with the queen but I don't think black can expect more than equality or very very slight edge.
  
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stockhausen
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Re: slav with f3
Reply #5 - 07/26/19 at 08:52:12
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(Sorry in my previous post of course I meant 4.cxd5 cxd5 5.f3)
  
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stockhausen
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Re: slav with f3
Reply #4 - 07/26/19 at 08:46:52
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Why not play 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.f3 ?
This seems more reputable, doesn't allow any of the ideas that were being discussed (dxc4 or c5)
  
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kevinfat
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Re: slav with f3
Reply #3 - 07/26/19 at 07:03:27
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kylemeister wrote on 07/25/19 at 23:49:47:
ErictheRed wrote on 07/25/19 at 23:23:33:
In your move order, isn't 4...dxc4 5.e4 b5 a worse version (from White's point of view) of the Geller Gambit?

6. a4 b4 7. Na2 would transpose to an old book line -- 3...dc 4.e4 b5 5.a4 b4 6.Na2 Nf6 7.f3.  (15 years ago ECO had that as leading to a slight advantage for Black.)

Well even something as ridiculous as the following is surprisingly hard to punish. Like initially the engines really like black's position after 5..b5. But as you play some lines further it seems like black has a very slight edge at best. Its again surprisingly hard to punish given how hilarious 4.f3 looks.
1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 dxc4 5.e4 b5 6.a4 b4 7.Nb1 Ba6
  
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kylemeister
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Re: slav with f3
Reply #2 - 07/25/19 at 23:49:47
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ErictheRed wrote on 07/25/19 at 23:23:33:
In your move order, isn't 4...dxc4 5.e4 b5 a worse version (from White's point of view) of the Geller Gambit?

6. a4 b4 7. Na2 would transpose to an old book line -- 3...dc 4.e4 b5 5.a4 b4 6.Na2 Nf6 7.f3.  (15 years ago ECO had that as leading to a slight advantage for Black.)
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: slav with f3
Reply #1 - 07/25/19 at 23:23:33
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Maybe the Mouse Slip variation?

It's a little different, but you might want to start your investigation here: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1209651418

In your move order, isn't 4...dxc4 5.e4 b5 a worse version (from White's point of view) of the Geller Gambit? Also, 4...c5!? looks pretty good to me offhand.
  
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kevinfat
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slav with f3
07/25/19 at 23:11:48
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What is the following line called? And how should black play against it? I searched for it and didn't really find anything and it doesn't seem totally bad for white.
1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.nc3 nf6 4.f3
  
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