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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Desktop setup for chess analysis (Read 399 times)
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Re: Desktop setup for chess analysis
Reply #11 - 08/14/19 at 18:04:05
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JFugre wrote on 08/13/19 at 11:46:45:
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I also don't think it is worth paying $150 extra for a 3700X to get some more nps for Stockfish


But if you don't care much about the speedup from the extra cores, then what's the point in spending the money to upgrade at all?


I wrote the previous reply on my phone. I will elaborate a bit more:

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but at least going from 4c/4t to 6c/12t will from what I understand make a difference for Stockfish, and also for the editing and so on. On the other hand, spending over 60 % extra to get some additional nps in SF (likely not more than 30 %) didn't seem like well spent money. I am also not sure how well SF strength scales with more nps.

For other applications, there seems to be an increase in performance for 3700X compared to 3600 between 10-30 % (except for a few cases, like Winrar, I think it was). Therefore, 3600 seems like better performance per dollar (I think that is the conclusion from reviews I read as well). On the other hand, I decided I can afford the premium, and also hope I can keep a 3700X without upgrading a bit longer than I would have donewith a 3600, levelling out the cost per time unit a bit.
  
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Re: Desktop setup for chess analysis
Reply #10 - 08/14/19 at 14:05:48
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JFugre wrote on 08/13/19 at 11:46:45:
Your proposed build is OK, but there is something I don't understand.

The Zen 2 is about the same speed as the cores in the Skylake (i7-6600). Thus, any substantial speed advantage your new build will have will solely be from the 3600X having 6 cores (or 12 threads) compared to 4 in the i7-6600.

Now you say

Quote:
I also don't think it is worth paying $150 extra for a 3700X to get some more nps for Stockfish


But if you don't care much about the speedup from the extra cores, then what's the point in spending the money to upgrade at all?

If it's to get NVMe SSD, and you're considering an X570 with PCIe 4.0, then you need to consider whether you'd rather get an SSD with PCIe 4.0 support. There are only a few in the market now, but surely many will follow.


Thx for feedback! I considered a 3600, not X, because it seem to give the best bang for the buck and still an upgrade because of more cores and threads, yes (and some clock speed). As mentioned, I also run my current build on 2133 Mhz RAM. I.e an upgrade will be small increments.

It didn't feel like the extra money for 3700X was worth it, but i decided on it anyway, to be a bit more future proof, despite the price being higher in percent than any performance increase.

I'd like to have a PCIe 4.0 SSD, but the ones available for me to order were mainly the Corsair ones, which didn't seem worth the money. The tests I've seen don't show much practical improvement if any on the Samsung. Also, I'm not certain where my bottlenecks are. M.2 disks might not be too much upgrade either. I have one now, but haven't compared it to my SATA SSDs. Anyhow, I'll likely get a PCIe 4.0 later I think.

Hopefully, this desktop will speed up both chess analysis as well as photo and video editing substantially for me, which is why I want to upgrade. Another reason is just GAS Smiley

I think there are many things I can improve on my current rig to get better performance. But the CPU is the main bottleneck in Lightroom, which is why I started thinking about upgrade.

The 3700X will be an upgrade. You are right, the number of cores should be part of the reason. Still, the 3600 is for sure more bang for the buck. If money didn't matter I would also have for a 3950X, and double RTX 2080 Ti. Just doesn't seem worth spending huge amounts on money for little extra practical analysis strength considering I am just an amateur, not even playing serious core chess!


  
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Re: Desktop setup for chess analysis
Reply #9 - 08/13/19 at 11:46:45
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Your proposed build is OK, but there is something I don't understand.

The Zen 2 is about the same speed as the cores in the Skylake (i7-6600). Thus, any substantial speed advantage your new build will have will solely be from the 3600X having 6 cores (or 12 threads) compared to 4 in the i7-6600.

Now you say

Quote:
I also don't think it is worth paying $150 extra for a 3700X to get some more nps for Stockfish


But if you don't care much about the speedup from the extra cores, then what's the point in spending the money to upgrade at all?

If it's to get NVMe SSD, and you're considering an X570 with PCIe 4.0, then you need to consider whether you'd rather get an SSD with PCIe 4.0 support. There are only a few in the market now, but surely many will follow.
  
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Re: Desktop setup for chess analysis
Reply #8 - 08/11/19 at 19:52:08
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Thanks for your replies, Pawnpusher! Will see how it goes. I might pay for having the computer built, seems like it can be worth it considering all trouble people have with the new Ryzen.

I also realized the Fractal Design R5, and most other cases, does not have a USB-C port. Not a huge problem, but made me change to a Define Meshify S2 instead. I have also decided against another GPU for now.
  
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Re: Desktop setup for chess analysis
Reply #7 - 08/10/19 at 21:35:54
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It lurched off topic. I am not brave enough to contemplate building my own comp, based on what I read your build seems pretty sound. Of course next year someone writes a nn engine that blows the LcO/Allie guys away, but that is the world of computer chess.
  
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Re: Desktop setup for chess analysis
Reply #6 - 08/10/19 at 19:09:02
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Pawnpusher wrote on 08/10/19 at 10:45:18:
No there is a forum called Computer chess, or talkchess. there is a thread titled "buying a new computer" Good luck!!


Thanks, yes, I have seen and read all pages of that thread too. Didn't it go off topic with discussions on various other things than computer build?

Anyway, here is my opinion and plan, in case someone with the same questions is interested:
As mentioned, the Ryzen 3000-series seems interesting and gives good performance for the price. Most reviewers online consider the R5 3600 a sweet spot. I also don't think it is worth paying $150 extra for a 3700X to get some more nps for Stockfish, although it might be a bit more future-proof with 8c/16t instead of 6c/12t and can give a bit more performance for SF10.

As mentioned before, for me it is better to spend the money on a Gigabyte Aorus Elite X570-board instead. That spares me the trouble of flashing BIOS, gives PCI4.0e support and also USB3.1 gen 2. Btw, this mobo lacks debug LEDs, but I hope I can live w/o them, will let you know if that was an incorrect assumption! Further, chances are a bit higher that this mobo (instead of the B450/x470-series) lets me upgrade the CPU in a few years and it has decent capability for me to try OC if that is not possible (I won't start with OC-ing, just basically run stock).

I'll pair the CPU and mobo with Corsair Vengance 3200 MHz 2x16 GB RAM, CMK32GX4M2B3200C16. It doesn't seem worth spending more money on higher frequency. I'll try OC and change timings and voltage instead if needed.

For Lc0, I hope to buy another RTX 2060, but from what I have read (that is where above mentioned thread gives some hints), it might not be the best price/performance upgrade, though. Scaling is less for the newer nets, and not like for a/b search engines. To have room for another GPU, I need a PSU of at least 850 W it seems like. That is more expensive than my first plan of a decent 750W PSU I found on sale, but so be it. Skimping on the PSU seems unwise, but 1000W seems to be PSU-underload.

The case will be a Fractal Design R5 to accommodate all the parts and have good airflow.

Those are the things I have decide to include in my build. I will add a Samsung 970 EVO plus and than another M.2 NVMe SSD.
  
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Re: Desktop setup for chess analysis
Reply #5 - 08/10/19 at 16:13:46
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Yes, I sort of thought that would be worth a look for anyone who is trying to stay abreast of the recent Lco and neural net engine advances.
  
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Re: Desktop setup for chess analysis
Reply #4 - 08/10/19 at 15:17:34
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It's interesting. I want to buy a new desktop and the new development on the cpu- and gpu-market are worth a look.

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=71208
  

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Re: Desktop setup for chess analysis
Reply #3 - 08/10/19 at 10:45:18
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No there is a forum called Computer chess, or talkchess. there is a thread titled "buying a new computer" Good luck!!
  
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Re: Desktop setup for chess analysis
Reply #2 - 08/09/19 at 14:51:55
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Pawnpusher wrote on 08/09/19 at 10:57:04:
There is a considerable thread on the computer chess forum that addresses some of your questions? I think it is worth a look.


Sure, which thread is that? I think I have read all here, but maybe missed something.
  
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Re: Desktop setup for chess analysis
Reply #1 - 08/09/19 at 10:57:04
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There is a considerable thread on the computer chess forum that addresses some of your questions? I think it is worth a look.
  
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Desktop setup for chess analysis
08/08/19 at 17:59:36
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Hi all,

not much going on in this sub-forum it seems. But I will try to get a discussion started at least.

Currently, I have a 4 year old computer, Intel core i5-6600k, 32 GB RAM@2133 MHz. I recently  upgraded my GPU to an Nvidia RTX 2060. I have CB 15, Stockfish 10 and Lc0 setup. On top of my chess interest, I also like photography and have also started to do some video editing, both 1080 and 4k videos. Therefore, I am considering buying a new computer.

I might get another RTX2060, but am not sure yet. My main problem is what CPU to aim for. The new Ryzen 3000-series looks very interesting. However, I can't decide which one to get and what mobo to pair it with. I want to have the possibility to add 2 NVMe M.2. I think I'll get the Ryzen 5 3600 instead of my first plan, the 7 3700x. The difference is about $150, which I feel is better spent on a X570 mobo or the GPU.

Anyone else that has looked into the new Ryzen series and know what is most priceworthy for chess analysis?
  
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