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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Install Lc0? (Read 4545 times)
fling
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #29 - 08/20/19 at 08:59:04
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msiipola wrote on 08/20/19 at 06:27:09:
Ok, I shall test to change the NNchache.

My cpu: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 3600 Mhz, 6 cores

I'm using 5 cores for Lc0.
I assume that's better then 2?
Or doesn't/can't Lc0 use more then 2?


Nope, normally you should use 1-2 cores per GPU.
  
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fling
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #28 - 08/20/19 at 08:58:38
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msiipola wrote on 08/20/19 at 06:39:16:
About the benchmark.

Fritz 15 has an engine benchmark function, but looks it just measures the cpu and not the engine? Have I missed something?


Haven't tried benchmarking Fritz 15. But for Lc0, here is what to normally do:
Press the Win key.
Type "cmd".
Choose the location where the .exe file is, e.g. if it is on your disk e, type "e:", followed by cd and the directory name, e.g. "cd lc0". Lastly, type "lc0.exe benchmark". SF10 works in the same manner I think.
  
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msiipola
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #27 - 08/20/19 at 06:39:16
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About the benchmark.

Fritz 15 has an engine benchmark function, but looks it just measures the cpu and not the engine? Have I missed something?
  
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msiipola
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #26 - 08/20/19 at 06:27:09
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Ok, I shall test to change the NNchache.

My cpu: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 3600 Mhz, 6 cores

I'm using 5 cores for Lc0.
I assume that's better then 2?
Or doesn't/can't Lc0 use more then 2?
  
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fling
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #25 - 08/19/19 at 22:02:36
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Sorry, posting on my phone, didn't check who posted what. The RAM issue was Leon T, not you Msiipola.
  
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fling
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #24 - 08/19/19 at 22:01:01
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msiipola wrote on 08/19/19 at 08:40:38:
fling wrote on 08/18/19 at 17:45:56:
msiipola wrote on 08/18/19 at 15:05:18:
I have checked my installation with Lc0 support. And according to them my installation is ok.
The low kN/s number for Lc0, doesn't mean it's weak. Only an engine-engine game will show it's strength.


Yes, indeed.

In fact, I'd say your numbers seemed pretty high for your GPU, but you should use the benchmark option for both engines instead, to be able to compare with others' results.


The kN/s numbers for Lc0 decrease after some time.

I did a engine blitz (4min/2sek) tournament between Lc0 and Stockfish 10, which the SF won 5.5-4.5. I looks like the SF and Lc0 is abt equal in strength with my current setup.


The numbers vary. That is why the benchmark value is better to use for comparison.

In the setup, have you increased the NNcache? It seems better to use 10x more than the default value. Also, number of cores should likely be 2 for your setup.

As for the RAM, that is low and I think that is why you see lag after 2 hours. There are some posts about that at the Talkchess forum.
  
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msiipola
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #23 - 08/19/19 at 08:40:38
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fling wrote on 08/18/19 at 17:45:56:
msiipola wrote on 08/18/19 at 15:05:18:
I have checked my installation with Lc0 support. And according to them my installation is ok.
The low kN/s number for Lc0, doesn't mean it's weak. Only an engine-engine game will show it's strength.


Yes, indeed.

In fact, I'd say your numbers seemed pretty high for your GPU, but you should use the benchmark option for both engines instead, to be able to compare with others' results.


The kN/s numbers for Lc0 decrease after some time.

I did a engine blitz (4min/2sek) tournament between Lc0 and Stockfish 10, which the SF won 5.5-4.5. I looks like the SF and Lc0 is abt equal in strength with my current setup.
  
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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #22 - 08/18/19 at 18:41:07
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fling wrote on 08/18/19 at 17:44:34:
How much RAM cache do you have? RAM fills up pretty quickly with Lc0, and it seems to be a well known issue.


16 GB RAM with i7 core. At least larger than previous laptop which was 8 GB RAM. Maybe now they have 32 and 64 GB RAM laptops ¿  Cheesy
  
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fling
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #21 - 08/18/19 at 17:45:56
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msiipola wrote on 08/18/19 at 15:05:18:
I have checked my installation with Lc0 support. And according to them my installation is ok.
The low kN/s number for Lc0, doesn't mean it's weak. Only an engine-engine game will show it's strength.


Yes, indeed.

In fact, I'd say your numbers seemed pretty high for your GPU, but you should use the benchmark option for both engines instead, to be able to compare with others' results.
  
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fling
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #20 - 08/18/19 at 17:44:34
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 08/17/19 at 22:03:16:
As I speak, I have Leela running for two hours. It lags the whole system, that some webpages cannot even load because it seems to make my internet connection slower. Chrome and Microsoft Edge sometimes crash when Leela runs due to its lag.

I think that to not have this slowness, you need very heavy duty laptop. Perhaps even those gaming laptops or similar. Otherwise it is hard to do anything like browsing when Leela runs for long times.


How much RAM cache do you have? RAM fills up pretty quickly with Lc0, and it seems to be a well known issue.
  
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msiipola
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #19 - 08/18/19 at 15:05:18
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I have checked my installation with Lc0 support. And according to them my installation is ok.
The low kN/s number for Lc0, doesn't mean it's weak. Only an engine-engine game will show it's strength.
  
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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #18 - 08/17/19 at 22:03:16
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As I speak, I have Leela running for two hours. It lags the whole system, that some webpages cannot even load because it seems to make my internet connection slower. Chrome and Microsoft Edge sometimes crash when Leela runs due to its lag.

I think that to not have this slowness, you need very heavy duty laptop. Perhaps even those gaming laptops or similar. Otherwise it is hard to do anything like browsing when Leela runs for long times.
  
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #17 - 08/17/19 at 10:34:28
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I am not the best person to reply, but the short answer is that a "Monte Carlo" search like LcO uses is a different breed of animal. Each node there is based on different calculation (Monte Carlo search ) than Stockfish which is based on an evaluation that is basically written out by a human. So there are differences. People use LcO because it is a top competitor in TCEC, and many people think machine learning is the future of computer chess.
  
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msiipola
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #16 - 08/17/19 at 10:29:36
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I have reinstalled Lc0 (v0.21.1) and compared it with Stockfish 10 64bit, with same position.

Lc0: 20 kN/s, after 1 min: Depth=15
SF: 11700 kN/s, after 1 min: Depth=32
  
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msiipola
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #15 - 08/17/19 at 10:02:27
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I have deleted my Lc0 installation, so I can't give any figures now.

But I'm confused when you say a normal (?) ratio between Stockfish and Lc0 is 1000:1. Do you mean Stockfish should be 1000 times faster then Lc0?! If I'm correct, why should anybody use Lc0, if it's 1000 slower then Stockfish?

  
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fling
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #14 - 08/17/19 at 08:42:51
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msiipola wrote on 08/17/19 at 06:27:35:
As I told before, I have a quite high performance GPU Nividia GTX1080, and also got Lc0 to execute.
But it was much slower then Stockfish, and I don't see any reason to use Lc0. But maybe the Lc0 installation could have been tweaked in some way, I don't know.


As you may have noticed, slow is a subjective evaluation. What do you mean by much slower? The nps is lower for basically all setups. From what I've seen, a suitable ratio between Stockfish and Lc0 is around 1000:1 for nps to have somewhat fair evaluation of their respective playing strength.

The relevant question for you is rather looking at published benchmarks. I'd say you should probably end up at around 4-5 nps with a GTX 1080. Is your setup much slower than that?
  
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #13 - 08/17/19 at 06:27:35
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As I told before, I have a quite high performance GPU Nividia GTX1080, and also got Lc0 to execute.
But it was much slower then Stockfish, and I don't see any reason to use Lc0. But maybe the Lc0 installation could have been tweaked in some way, I don't know.
  
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fling
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #12 - 08/16/19 at 05:16:28
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JFugre wrote on 08/15/19 at 18:40:49:
fling wrote on 08/15/19 at 12:31:01:
msiipola wrote on 08/15/19 at 06:23:26:
I manage to get the Lc0 running before (without any driver changes), but it was very very slow. If this was install problem or not, I don't know.


What hardware to you have? If you don't own a good GPU (that fully supports fp16, which basically are the RTX cards), Lc0 will only run at a few nps at the most.


That's a vast exaggeration, it's still a few thousand for recent non-RTX GPUs. With an RTX it's over ten thousand. With a GTX 1060 or faster the engine is still really strong at like 3-4knps.

You do need a reasonably modern, non-mobile NVIDIA GPU or it's not worth bothering with. But not necessarily an RTX card. If you have a choice though, obviously do get an RTX!


Well, my mistake, I wrote "few nps" but of course meant knps.

The comment was only "but it was very very slow", which I interpreted in terms of nps, but may very well mean something else.
  
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #11 - 08/15/19 at 22:28:19
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Leela creates a lot of lag when turned on for hours.

I think that if you really need Leela on for long times, you need to activate "high performance" on the battery settings.
  
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #10 - 08/15/19 at 18:40:49
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fling wrote on 08/15/19 at 12:31:01:
msiipola wrote on 08/15/19 at 06:23:26:
I manage to get the Lc0 running before (without any driver changes), but it was very very slow. If this was install problem or not, I don't know.


What hardware to you have? If you don't own a good GPU (that fully supports fp16, which basically are the RTX cards), Lc0 will only run at a few nps at the most.


That's a vast exaggeration, it's still a few thousand for recent non-RTX GPUs. With an RTX it's over ten thousand. With a GTX 1060 or faster the engine is still really strong at like 3-4knps.

You do need a reasonably modern, non-mobile NVIDIA GPU or it's not worth bothering with. But not necessarily an RTX card. If you have a choice though, obviously do get an RTX!
  
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #9 - 08/15/19 at 18:38:03
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Pawnpusher wrote on 08/15/19 at 10:05:24:
Really to install you need the LcO and a network. You may need to rename the network file to weights from there you're pretty much home free.

You don't need to rename weights files. The engine scans all files in the dir and picks the most recent file that is a valid weight.
  
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fling
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #8 - 08/15/19 at 12:31:01
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msiipola wrote on 08/15/19 at 06:23:26:
I manage to get the Lc0 running before (without any driver changes), but it was very very slow. If this was install problem or not, I don't know.


What hardware to you have? If you don't own a good GPU (that fully supports fp16, which basically are the RTX cards), Lc0 will only run at a few nps at the most.
  
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #7 - 08/15/19 at 10:05:24
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Really to install you need the LcO and a network. You may need to rename the network file to weights from there you're pretty much home free.
  
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #6 - 08/15/19 at 06:23:26
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Maybe I'm going to try again. But what is lacking is a easy to understand install instructions. At least I haven't found any.

I manage to get the Lc0 running before (without any driver changes), but it was very very slow. If this was install problem or not, I don't know.

I confess I should educate myself more on this subject, what neural is etc. But I tried to avoid this...  Smiley
  
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #5 - 08/13/19 at 11:36:38
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msiipola wrote on 08/11/19 at 07:01:11:
I was interested in using Lc0, but I found I had to install new/other graphic drivers for my Nvidia card (GTX 1080).

Nvidia has recently updated drivers with security fixes, and if I'm going to use drivers for Lc0, I'm not sure they contain same updates. And I get new updates of Nvidia drivers quite often.


Lc0 just needs the latest release driver from NVIDIA (which would have the security fixes). All the extra CUDA stuff you need is bundled with the lc0 download.

There is no need for "special" drivers.

Quote:
get the lastest CUDA version,


There is no need to install CUDA separately. NVIDIA's drivers include base support and everything else you need is in lc0's CUDA package.

Installing lc0 is marginally more complicated than Stockfish but I have the impression a lot people are confused and doing extra things that are totally necessary, making it look even more complicated.
  
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #4 - 08/13/19 at 11:04:17
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That is pretty much the procedure I followed.
  
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fling
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #3 - 08/11/19 at 20:10:40
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msiipola wrote on 08/11/19 at 07:01:11:
I was interested in using Lc0, but I found I had to install new/other graphic drivers for my Nvidia card (GTX 1080).

Nvidia has recently updated drivers with security fixes, and if I'm going to use drivers for Lc0, I'm not sure they contain same updates. And I get new updates of Nvidia drivers quite often.


The thing is that almost any card except an RTX-card from Nividia will be pretty slow for Lc0, because the lack of fp16. It seems better to use a distilled network and regular CPU in that case.

The latest drivers should be ok, though, I think.

Anyhow, I searched for youtube-clips and followed the advice in them for the installation of Lc0.

I think I first had to first update driver and get the lastest CUDA version, but after that I got the CUDA zip-file from the latest release https://github.com/LeelaChessZero/lc0/releases. I unzipped it into a directory. Downloaded a weight file and put in the same directory. Lastly, I created an engine in Chessbase 15.
  
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #2 - 08/11/19 at 09:01:44
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It took me more than two months to figure out how to install this thing.

https://elajedrezdelproletariado.blogspot.com/2019/08/como-instalar-leela-chess-...

I made directions for those who use Windows 10. I tried to make it simple for people who are bad at computers. I counted 38 individual steps. Probably the most difficult engine I ever had to install in ChessBase. There is a saying (maybe Argentinian ¿), Me costó los tres cojones, or [it was so difficult that] it cost me my three balls.  Cheesy

It is all in castellano, but well it should help anyway.. 
  
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Re: Install Lc0?
Reply #1 - 08/11/19 at 07:42:08
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Maybe the OpenCL backend rather than Cuda?

The cuda install scripts for linux gave me a fair bit of grief wrt to GFX drivers, but that way round seemed to work quite easily. No idea if its weaker though.
  
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msiipola
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Install Lc0?
08/11/19 at 07:01:11
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I was interested in using Lc0, but I found I had to install new/other graphic drivers for my Nvidia card (GTX 1080).

Nvidia has recently updated drivers with security fixes, and if I'm going to use drivers for Lc0, I'm not sure they contain same updates. And I get new updates of Nvidia drivers quite often.
  
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