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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) No fairplay in online chess? (Read 1602 times)
ReneDescartes
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #39 - 10/14/19 at 21:03:29
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Resigning is a bad idea if your opponent really might stalemate you, or really might not know how to win with king and rook. Fred Wilson once annotated a move in one of his books with dry humor: "children do not resign."

But waiting for your time to run down during your final zugzwang as your opponent is systematically checkmating you, then returning to make the last move just before you flag? If a coach taught that to kids, he'd be a true corrupter of youth.

Luckily, such petty monstrosities are so rare over the board that they aren't worth much thought.
  
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Stigma
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #38 - 10/14/19 at 08:12:35
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msiipola wrote on 10/14/19 at 07:08:43:
No serious coach teach such behaviour.

But I often see recommendations on the net, of never give up until mated. Maybe even some coaches teach such?

This is and should only be a common recommendation for young kids and beginners. On those levels people sometimes resign in positions that are not lost, and even in lost position there's a very real chance the opponent will blunder something major. So there the advice "never give up" makes sense, and coaches do teach it.

Older and stronger players who do this are just being rude or haven't understood the unspoken rules of the game. But technically they are in their full right to play on, so it's best not to get too annoyed by it.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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msiipola
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #37 - 10/14/19 at 07:08:43
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trw wrote on 10/08/19 at 01:37:24:
Where are these people getting this behavior? Surely coaches are not actively teaching their students to be this rude?
                   


No serious coach teach such behaviour.

But I often see recommendations on the net, of never give up until mated. Maybe even some coaches teach such?
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #36 - 10/10/19 at 18:23:14
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Paddy wrote on 10/10/19 at 16:44:35:
... I don't believe in reacting. ... My view is that, in chess as in life, good manners cost nothing and set a good example.

This is great. In "life" I would allow exceptions for self-defense in two cases:
  1. Someone who is wantonly committing mayhem gets a proportionately violent reaction.
  2. Someone who tries to exploit good manners for their own advantage stops receiving good manners. Depending on the nature of their exploit they can expect worse.
In chess the exceptions are around cheating (otherwise they cross over into "life"). Resorting to the rulebook has so far been a sufficient answer.

If my opponent doesn't resign it doesn't bother me at all. When or even whether to resign is a free choice. The moment I sit down to play I am committing to the entire session, I make sure to bring snacks.
  
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #35 - 10/10/19 at 16:46:58
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Seeley wrote on 10/10/19 at 15:46:16:
Monocle wrote on 10/10/19 at 14:59:07:
No, because that's not the situation I described. 

That's not the situation you described only if we are to assume that you overlooked mate in one in a position where you weren't dead lost. You didn't specify that, so I didn't assume it.


It's only by your assumption that the notion of being dead lost comes into the equation at all.  Since I did not mention it, why should you infer it?   If I had been dead lost, I wouldn't consider being checkmated much of an oversight.

I rather get the impression that some people here are trying a little too hard to justify their bad behaviour online.
  
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Paddy
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #34 - 10/10/19 at 16:44:35
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I've found the same as Tony, especially playing anonymously on Lichess.

I always make sure I've something else to do while I'm waiting for their time to run out or for me to receive the message from Lichess that I can claim it.

I don't believe in reacting. I'm generally playing either to practise openings or just sharpen up a bit. I generally resign when it reaches the point that I really have no resources left, other than trying to on time.

My view is that, in chess as in life, good manners cost nothing and set a good example.
« Last Edit: 10/10/19 at 22:05:32 by Paddy »  
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Seeley
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #33 - 10/10/19 at 15:46:16
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Monocle wrote on 10/10/19 at 14:59:07:
No, because that's not the situation I described. 

That's not the situation you described only if we are to assume that you overlooked mate in one in a position where you weren't dead lost. You didn't specify that, so I didn't assume it.

So let's make the assumption you intended us to: it may well be the case that your opponent thought you were dead lost before the mate-in-one oversight occurred, even if you didn't think that. I'm sure at least some of these incidents occur because of a gulf in strength between the two players: the stronger player gets annoyed that his opponent is wasting time by playing on instead of resigning, when in fact the weaker player isn't strong enough to realise how bad his position is; or alternatively, the weaker player gets annoyed when he thinks he's been clearly winning for some time, when in fact there were still resources for the defender. So the situation you described isn't altogether clear-cut, because it doesn't take into account the possibility that you and your opponent might have assessed the position completely differently.
  
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Monocle
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #32 - 10/10/19 at 14:59:07
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Seeley wrote on 10/10/19 at 00:14:12:
One possibility is that they're angry because they feel you've been playing on for too long in a dead lost position, thus wasting their time.


No, because that's not the situation I described.
  
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #31 - 10/10/19 at 07:55:09
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Seeley wrote on 10/10/19 at 00:14:12:
Monocle wrote on 10/08/19 at 22:12:15:
This sort of obnoxious time wasting isn't even limited to sore losers.  I've had blitz games online where I've overlooked a mate in one, and my opponent has let their clock run down to the very last second before delivering it.  Anyone care to speculate on what the purpose of that might be?

One possibility is that they're angry because they feel you've been playing on for too long in a dead lost position, thus wasting their time. They behave as you describe so as to waste your time in return.


Exactly. Why not resign in time instead, it is just online chess.

But I only run down the time when the opponent has played on and refused to resign and still won't do it when there is mate in one, not when it was overlooked.

The funny thing is that the very same people that refuse to resign appropriately, just pushing "wood", often get very upset when I refuse to offer a rematch...

  
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #30 - 10/10/19 at 00:14:12
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Monocle wrote on 10/08/19 at 22:12:15:
This sort of obnoxious time wasting isn't even limited to sore losers.  I've had blitz games online where I've overlooked a mate in one, and my opponent has let their clock run down to the very last second before delivering it.  Anyone care to speculate on what the purpose of that might be?

One possibility is that they're angry because they feel you've been playing on for too long in a dead lost position, thus wasting their time. They behave as you describe so as to waste your time in return.
  
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #29 - 10/09/19 at 23:24:47
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Jupp53 wrote on 10/09/19 at 20:53:40:
Monocle wrote on 10/08/19 at 22:12:15:
This sort of obnoxious time wasting isn't even limited to sore losers.  I've had blitz games online where I've overlooked a mate in one, and my opponent has let their clock run down to the very last second before delivering it.  Anyone care to speculate on what the purpose of that might be?


Simply giving the chance to resign and showing how awful it is to continue playing against an opponent allowing this. You complain because you don't resign.


If I've overlooked the mate on my turn, who's to say I'm ever going to see it on theirs?  Running the clock down instead of playing the mate as soon as they spot it, like a normal person, just demonstrates bad character.
  
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #28 - 10/09/19 at 20:53:40
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Monocle wrote on 10/08/19 at 22:12:15:
This sort of obnoxious time wasting isn't even limited to sore losers.  I've had blitz games online where I've overlooked a mate in one, and my opponent has let their clock run down to the very last second before delivering it.  Anyone care to speculate on what the purpose of that might be?


Simply giving the chance to resign and showing how awful it is to continue playing against an opponent allowing this. You complain because you don't resign.
  

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Monocle
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #27 - 10/09/19 at 15:22:27
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brabo wrote on 10/09/19 at 07:26:06:
Then I teach them a lesson by also letting my clock run down so giving them the hope of getting a free point. In the last second I checkmate them after which they realize they are fooled themselves.


Unfortunately, the lesson you teach them is to time their resignation to when you have two seconds left.
  
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #26 - 10/09/19 at 15:20:08
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MNb wrote on 10/09/19 at 05:22:17:
Monocle wrote on 10/08/19 at 22:12:15:
Anyone care to speculate on what the purpose of that might be?

They want to raise false hope.
They want you to "enjoy" utter defeat as long as possible.


Joke's on them, then, because I hadn't even noticed the mate.   Grin
  
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Re: No fairplay in online chess?
Reply #25 - 10/09/19 at 14:55:11
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Bibs wrote on 10/09/19 at 08:45:43:
Such behaviours are discussed in the song by sardonic social satirists Half Man Half Biscuit, 'Bad Losers on Yahoo Chess'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8w3eW1huCM

Possibly the best ever track about playing chess online. Thanks Nigel.

Lyrics:
http://halfmanhalfbiscuit.uk/csi-ambleside/bad-losers-on-yahoo-chess/




Brilliant, thanks for sharing!
  
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