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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The Classical Pirc (Read 492 times)
Confused_by_Theory
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Re: The Classical Pirc
Reply #10 - 10/21/19 at 15:00:08
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Heya.

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 10/19/19 at 05:57:45:
1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nf3 d6 4.Be2 a6 5.c4 Bg4 6.Nc3 Nc6 7.Be3 e5 8.d5 Bxf3 9.Bxf3 Nd4 10.Bxd4 exd4 11.Ne2 c5 12.dxc6 bxc6

Confused_by_Theory wrote on 10/19/19 at 00:11:25:
This is one of the key variations. Having spent a tempo on a6 doesn't matter much for black it seems.

Did you have any opinion of Stockfish's 13.O-O Qb6 14.b4 ... ? White's edge there seems bigger than anything white gets in the sample pages of Kaufman's latest repertoire.

I suppose it's a mix between a static and dynamic position where black suffers slightly from having split and marginally advanced pawns.

There is also:
1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nf3 d6 4.Be2 a6 5.c4 Bg4 6.Nc3 Nc6 7.Be3 e5 8.d5 Bxf3 9.Bxf3 Nd4 10.Bxd4 exd4 11.Ne2 c5 12.dxc6 bxc6 13.0-0 c5
Where white needs to convince himself he has a real edge. There are various tries but reaching firm conclusions is hard in such messy positions. It is fair to say white has initiative though and this is in most cases enough for a practical game.

What I like most though is:
1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nf3 d6 4.Be2 a6 5.c4 Bg4 6.Nc3 Nc6 7.Be3 e5 8.d5 Bxf3 9.Bxf3 Nd4 10.Bxd4 exd4 11.Ne2 Ne7!?
Basically planning c5 and Nxc6 if white takes en passant.
12.0-0
12.Nxd4 c5 13.Ne2 b5 looks like enough compensation to me, but grovel-minded white players may disagree. Something tells me this was the continuation that happened when I played this a few years ago but I really can't recall. If 13.dxc6 Qa5+ is a nice disturbing move.
12...c5 13.dxc6 Nxc6 14.Nf4
White is optically better with more sound looking pawns. Black still looks to face a very small amount of positional risk though. He has quite excellent dark square control.

Have a nice day.

Alas. As noted.
1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nf3 d6 4.Be2 a6 5.0-0
Works. So the whole way of playing is situational here.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: The Classical Pirc
Reply #9 - 10/19/19 at 05:57:45
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1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nf3 d6 4.Be2 a6 5.c4 Bg4 6.Nc3 Nc6 7.Be3 e5 8.d5 Bxf3 9.Bxf3 Nd4 10.Bxd4 exd4 11.Ne2 c5 12.dxc6 bxc6

Confused_by_Theory wrote on 10/18/19 at 23:11:25:
This is one of the key variations. Having spent a tempo on a6 doesn't matter much for black it seems.

Did you have any opinion of Stockfish's 13.O-O Qb6 14.b4 ... ? White's edge there seems bigger than anything white gets in the sample pages of Kaufman's latest repertoire.
  
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Re: The Classical Pirc
Reply #8 - 10/18/19 at 23:25:38
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Hello.

1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nf3 d6 4.Be2 Nf6 5.Nc3 0-0 6.0-0 Nc6 7.d5 Nb8 8.a4

Is also recommended. Here I think it's a bit sad but black should probably just play a5 and Na6+Nb4. The problem is that after a7-a5 black should not go back to e5 or e6 ideas because white just takes (en passant if needed) so he has to play another game with c6 at some point.

Have a nice day.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: The Classical Pirc
Reply #7 - 10/18/19 at 23:11:25
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Hello.

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 10/18/19 at 20:04:27:
1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nf3 d6 4.Be2
Patrick Wolff once wrote in Chess Horizons that if white wants to play the Classical then this is the most accurate move order.
4...a6 5.c4 Bg4 6.Nc3 Nc6 7.Be3 e5 8.d5
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 10/18/19 at 20:04:27:
8...Bxf3 9.Bxf3 Nd4 10.Bxd4!? exd4 11.Ne2 c5 12.dxc6 bxc6
Black looks okay here

This is one of the key variations. Having spent a tempo on a6 doesn't matter much for black it seems.

Just playing King's Indian like positions is probably quite bad after having gone both a6 and Bg4. In general I don't get the feeling black can play these structures with less than optimal moves thrown in even when there is no pawn on c4.

kylemeister wrote on 10/18/19 at 19:31:37:
So what does he go with against 6...Bg4?  I recall that one of the various old possibilities, 7. Be3 Nc6 8. d5, was claimed to lead to an edge quite some years ago.

After 6...Bg4 he goes for the sensical line:
1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nf3 d6 4.Be2 Nf6 5.Nc3 0-0 6.0-0 Bg4 7.h3 Bxf3 8.Bxf3 Nc6 9.Ne2

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: The Classical Pirc
Reply #6 - 10/18/19 at 20:08:07
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oh the humanity
  
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Re: The Classical Pirc
Reply #5 - 10/18/19 at 20:04:27
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 10/18/19 at 11:21:28:
1.e4 g6 2.d4 d6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.Be2
4...a6 and now it is a mystery to me why everyone concludes the line with 5.c4 += as 5...Bg4 at least gives black the chance to reach somewhat acceptable positions should he get to play Nc6 and e5.


It just so happens I recently had this on the board. My opponent formerly played the Sicilian, Hyper-Accelerated Dragon or Nimzowitsch variations, but recently switched to the Modern on the theory that young players are more likely to be confused by it.

Allan Bennett, aka an ordinary chessplayer (2200) vs Alan Casden (2100)
offhand (no clocks), Mulligan CC, 2019.09.14

1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nf3 d6 4.Be2
Patrick Wolff once wrote in Chess Horizons that if white wants to play the Classical then this is the most accurate move order.
4...a6 5.c4 Bg4 6.Nc3 Nc6 7.Be3 e5 8.d5 Nce7?!
(After the game I suggested the improvement
8...Bxf3 9.Bxf3 Nd4 10.Bxd4!? exd4 11.Ne2 c5 12.dxc6 bxc6
Black looks okay here
13.O-O
(We looked at two other moves: 13.e5 Ne7; 13.Nxd4 Qb6.)
13...Qb6 14.b4!
This fine move is Stockfish's suggestion. It didn't occur to me at all.)
9.c5 f5?
Two weeks later, against one of the young guns at the club, my opponent played a similarly horrid ...f7-f5 in a Hippo (so-called, although Hugh Myers said Mr. Thompson didn't play it the modern way). I hope he will learn to restrain himself, although we seniorish citizens are slow on the uptake.
10.Ng5 Bxe2 11.Qxe2 f4? 12.Ne6 Qd7 13.Nxg7+ Kf7 14.Ne6 fxe3 15.O-O Nf6 16.f4 Rhe8 17.fxe5 dxe5 18.Rxf6+ Kxf6 19.Rf1+ Nf5 20.exf5 gxf5 21.Qh5
1-0
  

Modern-4_a6.pgn ( 1 KB | 4 Downloads )
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Re: The Classical Pirc
Reply #4 - 10/18/19 at 19:31:37
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So what does he go with against 6...Bg4?  I recall that one of the various old possibilities, 7. Be3 Nc6 8. d5, was claimed to lead to an edge quite some years ago.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: The Classical Pirc
Reply #3 - 10/18/19 at 19:11:36
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Hi again.

My:
1.e4 g6 2.d4 d6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.Be2 a6 5.0-0 Nc6 6.d5 Na7? is kinda stupid btw since white can still go c4. Forgot about that Cheesy

Have a nice day.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: The Classical Pirc
Reply #2 - 10/18/19 at 19:09:22
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Hi.

MNb wrote on 10/18/19 at 14:12:20:
So ha has something powerful against the Pseudo-Hippo 6...e6 ?

I really wouldn't know as nothing 6...e6 is covered.

MNb wrote on 10/18/19 at 14:12:20:
"6...c6 coverage was a bit underwhelming"
Not exactly a plus, given that it's the most important reply.

Indeed.

Have a nice day.

  
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Re: The Classical Pirc
Reply #1 - 10/18/19 at 14:12:20
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So ha has something powerful against the Pseudo-Hippo 6...e6 ?

"6...c6 coverage was a bit underwhelming"
Not exactly a plus, given that it's the most important reply.
  

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Confused_by_Theory
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The Classical Pirc
10/18/19 at 11:21:28
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Hi.

I just watched parts of GM Hammer's video series on 1.e4 for Chess24. Worth a look if you want some decent line to play that is not terribly hard to understand.

He actually recommends one of my favourite lines against the Modern:
1.e4 g6 2.d4 d6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.Be2
And the Classical system against the Pirc
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be2
So prepare to face the classical more often.

Unless of course you want to be a Modern player and deviate, even though this is not supposed to work well:
1.e4 g6 2.d4 d6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.Be2
4...c5 5.c3 - Hammer
4...Nd7 and I like 5.a4 but there should be other good moves.
4...a6 and now it is a mystery to me why everyone concludes the line with 5.c4 += as 5...Bg4 at least gives black the chance to reach somewhat acceptable positions should he get to play Nc6 and e5. White therefore probably needs to think and it is not totally easy to find something clear. A problem is 4...a6 5.0-0 when 5...Nf6 6.Nc3 is a classical where black has played a6 before castling. I suppose there is also 4...a6 5.0-0 Nc6 6.d5 -kinda critical I guess- and now 6...Na7!? With a position where black would normally have a knight on f6. Probably there is not that much independent significance though.

Interstingly I didn't see anything on 6...a6 and 6...c6 coverage was a bit underwhelming; though apart from this it looks like Hammer found good ways to play as white.

Have a nice day.

Edit: Bolded some moves
« Last Edit: 10/18/19 at 18:18:18 by Confused_by_Theory »  
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