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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Modernised Berlin Wall (Read 23100 times)
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #20 - 11/20/19 at 18:20:17
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Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 17:22:02:
MNb wrote on 11/20/19 at 16:19:06:
Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 14:45:40:
I think you're just being needlessly hostile here.

I don't think it needless as long as you think it possible that someone who calls himself Trotsky supports Brezhnev and Honegger; that's a strong sign of a closed mind.

This mind has forgotten most of what it once knew about the political differences between the central historical figures within Communism. But that doesn't make it "closed".

I only want to add that it's possible to take a wide variety of attitudes to the DDR. It must be possible to commemorate some aspects of it while not necessarily supporting Brezhnev and Honegger?

I think I understand what you're thinking about the irony point, but honestly I was just trying to say he clearly appears to be somewhere on the far left politically, and for all I know he's honest about that. The blog name is one sign.


Let's take it as it is. The fall of the Berlin Walls brought "freedom" to the eastern hemisphere. But that "freedom" to many became an unreachable aspect. As in the "winner's" (i.e. capitalism) world you need money to evolve freedom.
So many (by far not everybody) had no gain but felt a loss of some sort of security and order.
Is that, was followed after the fall of the wall a better world?
I would say: it is another world with comparable problems.
Just look at the USA a country deeply devided, with lots of people suffering in ways (in concern to Living Standards) worse then in the former GDR in the early eighties (that is a matter of statistics). Just compare the care factor.
So it ist not allone the question whether the earlier times were "better".
To me the main question is, whether we can cope with the rising problems in the world.
The signs are not to good.
And the main problem is the same that allready stood at the craddle of communism: Inequality. 
By the way: The GDR-guy had the name Honecker, not Honegger.
  

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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #19 - 11/20/19 at 17:22:02
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MNb wrote on 11/20/19 at 16:19:06:
Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 14:45:40:
I think you're just being needlessly hostile here.

I don't think it needless as long as you think it possible that someone who calls himself Trotsky supports Brezhnev and Honegger; that's a strong sign of a closed mind.

This mind has forgotten most of what it once knew about the political differences between the central historical figures within Communism. But that doesn't make it "closed".

I only want to add that it's possible to take a wide variety of attitudes to the DDR. It must be possible to commemorate some aspects of it while not necessarily supporting Brezhnev and Honegger?

I think I understand what you're thinking about the irony point, but honestly I was just trying to say he clearly appears to be somewhere on the far left politically, and for all I know he's honest about that. The blog name is one sign.
  

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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #18 - 11/20/19 at 16:19:06
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Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 14:45:40:
I think you're just being needlessly hostile here.

I don't think it needless as long as you think it possible that someone who calls himself Trotsky supports Brezhnev and Honegger; that's a strong sign of a closed mind. So is this:

Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 11:12:42:
unless you think it's all a display of irony, but that's not my impression).



This increased the hostility, but it has another cause that has nothing to do with this topic. That's my last word.
  

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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #17 - 11/20/19 at 14:45:40
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MNb wrote on 11/20/19 at 13:37:36:
Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 11:12:42:
Why is that?

I answered that question already in my previous comment, in the part you carefully omitted when you quoted me. If you happen to think that the subtitle I translated is an expression of DDR-nostalgia I advise you to work on your open mind indeed. Let me help you on your way: "deathly love" has a negative meaning and hence doesn't exactly express support for Brezhnev and Honegger.

Yes, the message in the picture was negative, obviously. The song and video in the Youtube link and the word "commemorate", on the other hand, were positive (or, alternatively, ironic).

So all I said was it could be that Leon_Trotsky meant exactly what he said. I half expected him to clear that up himself. I was open to both possibilties, and that is somehow closed-minded?

I think you're just being needlessly hostile here.
  

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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #16 - 11/20/19 at 13:37:36
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Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 11:12:42:
Why is that?

I answered that question already in my previous comment, in the part you carefully omitted when you quoted me. If you happen to think that the subtitle I translated is an expression of DDR-nostalgia I advise you to work on your open mind indeed. Let me help you on your way: "deathly love" has a negative meaning and hence doesn't exactly express support for Brezhnev and Honegger.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #15 - 11/20/19 at 11:12:42
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MNb wrote on 11/20/19 at 10:01:31:
Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 05:32:45:
It could be that Leon_Trotsky really does find the DDR worth commemorating.

This only makes sense if you lack the open mind you try to promote yourself.

Why is that? Nostalgia for various aspects of life and culture in the DDR still exists, with a variety of motivations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostalgie
And Leon_Trotsky doesn't exactly hide his political leanings (unless you think it's all a display of irony, but that's not my impression).
  

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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #14 - 11/20/19 at 10:01:31
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Glenn Snow wrote on 11/20/19 at 04:09:09:
Could the previous post be less appropriate?

No. Check the subtitle.

"Mein Gott,hilf mir diese tödliche Liebe zu überleben."

"Dear God, help me to survive this deadly love."

Of course some here can't stand this kind of sarcasm, but I think it very appropriate to commemorate that many DDR-citizens did survive that deadly love.


Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 05:32:45:
It could be that Leon_Trotsky really does find the DDR worth commemorating.

This only makes sense if you lack the open mind you try to promote yourself.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #13 - 11/20/19 at 09:12:12
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Berlin I'd imagine. The Marshall is a pain too of course, but more play.

If the Berlin ending is a dead end (I think established on some level by now), you've got either 4 d3 or 5 Re1 anyway so hardly losing much playing the Italian instead.
  
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #12 - 11/20/19 at 07:21:17
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 11/20/19 at 07:09:17:
Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 07:02:16:
Actually many people don't "find it very good that it is Black's best defence to 1. e4", if indeed it is, since the Berlin's popularity makes playing 1.e4 as White more boring than it used to be.


I think that if White gets that irritated by the Berlin, that definitely makes a case for calling the Berlin the best, or if not then one of the best, defences for Black.

I'm not too irritated, as I play 1.e4 only rarely anyway. But if I wanted to go back to it permanently, ensuring I had lines I liked against 1.e4 e5 would be first on the agenda.

The Italian has rivaled the Ruy Lopez in popularity on top level for a few years now. I don't know exactly which Ruy lines make them look for alternatives as White, but the Berlin and the Marshall Gambit are obvious suspects.
  

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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #11 - 11/20/19 at 07:09:17
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Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 07:02:16:
Actually many people don't "find it very good that it is Black's best defence to 1. e4", if indeed it is, since the Berlin's popularity makes playing 1.e4 as White more boring than it used to be.


I think that if White gets that irritated by the Berlin, that definitely makes a case for calling the Berlin the best, or if not then one of the best, defences for Black.
  
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #10 - 11/20/19 at 07:02:16
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 11/20/19 at 06:27:28:
But I find the premise of the opening Berlin Wall ironic. If so many people wanted the Berlin Wall to fall in November 1989, they find it very good that it is Black's best defence to 1. e4 because in chess the Berlin Wall shall never fall (?).

Also ironic that the Berlin Wall opening was never super popular in pre-1989 tournament chess.


3...Nf6 was known as the Berlin defence for a century or more before the Berlin Wall was built. It has something to do with these old masters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Pleiades. According to my database, three of the first four recorded games with 3...Nf6 were played in Berlin between 1836 and 1847.

The "Wall" nickname for the defence must have been added later, after people realized how difficult it could be to break down. Maybe even as recently as Kramnik's successful usage of it in the 2000 match.

Actually many people don't "find it very good that it is Black's best defence to 1. e4", if indeed it is, since the Berlin's popularity makes playing 1.e4 as White more boring than it used to be. Though the Petroff's ebbs and flows in popularity also play a role here.
  

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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #9 - 11/20/19 at 06:27:28
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One of my grandfathers was born in China in the 1890s. During the Japanese occupation he went in exile to the West. He was a very strict person. But in the 1970s, he decided to return permanently to China, which had already become communist. He probably considered DDR not strict enough.

But I find the premise of the opening Berlin Wall ironic. If so many people wanted the Berlin Wall to fall in November 1989, they find it very good that it is Black's best defence to 1. e4 because in chess the Berlin Wall shall never fall (?).

Also ironic that the Berlin Wall opening was never super popular in pre-1989 tournament chess.

  
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #8 - 11/20/19 at 05:32:45
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Glenn Snow wrote on 11/20/19 at 04:09:09:
Could the previous post be less appropriate?

It could be that Leon_Trotsky really does find the DDR worth commemorating. Though most people today don't.

Trying to just listen with an open mind and not think of the Communist and Cold War history, I actually found the music and lyrics of Auferstanden aus Ruinen a bit inspiring (though the line "Schlagen wir des Volkes Feind" brought me right back to the Stasi and the oppressive regime).

I can't recall hearing this anthem before, so thanks for that.
  

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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #7 - 11/20/19 at 04:09:09
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Could the previous post be less appropriate?
  
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #6 - 11/19/19 at 19:58:52
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To commemorate DDR:

https://youtu.be/dIh1eOw0zV8



I am also confused why the Berlin endgame has fewer pages than other chapters.

  
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