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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Modernised Berlin Wall (Read 1389 times)
kylemeister
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #31 - 11/21/19 at 06:40:44
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On a side note, I don't know what the latest greatest thinking on 7. a4 d6 is, but it will always remind me of Halprin-Pillsbury (described as "Prepared Analysis vs. Genius!" in The Golden Treasury of Chess, a book I acquired as a child).
  
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IsaVulpes
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #30 - 11/21/19 at 04:46:06
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I'd be very interested in the Berlin if I was guaranteed to play the Ending;
But I'm not that sold on 5.Re1, nor on 5..d4 Nd6 6.de5: Nb5: 7.a4 ever being any fun.

..Now that I say this, how playable is 7.a4 d6? That looks perfectly valid at a cursory glance, without allowing White to force a draw in 10 moves?

P.S. Is there a particular reason this thread didn't land in the Berlin subforum?
  
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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #29 - 11/21/19 at 00:41:25
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Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 23:03:10:
I'm sorry if I insulted you. That wasn't my intention.

I was just genuinely unsure whether there was some appreciation for the DDR in the post as well, with the patriotic song and all, in addition to the obvious criticism contained in the cartoon.

I hope it's OK to ask when I'm unsure how to interpret a post.


No, that is fine, but I was referring to your reply to MNb in that post, not you directly.

Personally, I do think that some Eastern bloc countries did some good in the elimination of poverty and (at least attempting to) eliminate social and economic class. Like motörhead said, DDR always had a better social safety net for the lower-income compared to for example, a very rich country like USA. So there is admiration in DDR for that. Definitely not for its lunatic authoritarianism. Remember that Trotsky was Stalin's and Stalinism's arch-enemy.

And anyway, DDR's anthem is very nice. It is the type of song that I would listen to a few times before a tournament game.

I am thinking of taking up the Berlin Wall as a reply to 1. e4 as well, so there is that too. Studying Berlin theory to the tune of Aufenstanden aus Ruinen for this winter sounds quite pleasant.
  
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Jupp53
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #28 - 11/20/19 at 23:37:59
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It's useless to discuss politics here. It should happen in forums where this is a purpose or part of the culture. This culture lacks here, so I'd like the moderator to remove the anti-communist posts and the post about the GDR.

Anyway, a joke is the only good continuation. Why do the chinese always smile? They still have their wall.  Cheesy
  

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Stigma
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #27 - 11/20/19 at 23:03:10
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 11/20/19 at 19:36:39:
I support neither Brezhnev nor Hönecker. Neither of them should have been the one to lead their respective countries. But then again, neither should have Stalin.

Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 14:45:40:
Yes, the message in the picture was negative, obviously. The song and video in the Youtube link and the word "commemorate", on the other hand, were positive (or, alternatively, ironic).

So all I said was it could be that Leon_Trotsky meant exactly what he said. I half expected him to clear that up himself. I was open to both possibilties, and that is somehow closed-minded?

I think you're just being needlessly hostile here.


It was my attempt at irony. But apparently my non=literal messages always seem to get misconstrued.

In any case, people hurl insults at me on a daily basis. Receiving a few more here is not really that much for me.

I'm sorry if I insulted you. That wasn't my intention.

I was just genuinely unsure whether there was some appreciation for the DDR in the post as well, with the patriotic song and all, in addition to the obvious criticism contained in the cartoon.

I hope it's OK to ask when I'm unsure how to interpret a post.
  

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dali
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #26 - 11/20/19 at 22:07:44
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I came here for a discussion on a chess book...
  
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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #25 - 11/20/19 at 20:48:16
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MNb wrote on 11/20/19 at 19:48:14:
Nor Trotsky.


Rubbish. There would have been no Berlin Wall under Trotsky. West Germany would have been communist as well.

This all assuming that the Second World War had started as it did. If Trotsky had come to power in 1924, I am sure that Germany would have become communist, stopping Hitler from gaining popularity and being elected in the first place.

MNb wrote on 11/20/19 at 19:48:14:
Not by me, but as a Dutchman I understand German as well as English. Moreover I had seen the cartoon and the text before.


My point was that the Berlin Wall as an opening is extremely popular only after the actual Berlin Wall fell.

MNb wrote on 11/20/19 at 19:48:14:
But the USA has a political system that makes it possible, even if it's difficult, to correct such injustices, while the DDR had not. Nor had the Soviet-Union when Trotsky still held a powerful position. Trotsky was as cruel a suppressor as Stalin, as my political soulmates in Russia 1919-1922 learned the hard way. Your nick doesn't speak for you, no matter how much I like your comments on chess.


I have lived in USA for many years. The system is an oligarchy, More like a libertarian capitalist's dream. The working man's nightmare.

And after hundreds of years there is still no universal healthcare. Tens of millions of Americans perished due to being unable to afford healthcare. The only way is a highly reformer-like president. When Bernie Sanders defeats Trump next year and becomes president it can happen. I do not see why if someone less rigid like Hönecker were in power, DDR could reform as well.

The American comedian George Carlin said, "It is called the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it."
  
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #24 - 11/20/19 at 20:06:52
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MNb wrote on 11/20/19 at 19:48:14:
Leon_Trotsky wrote on 11/20/19 at 19:36:39:
I support neither Brezhnev nor Hönecker. Neither of them should have been the one to lead their respective countries. But then again, neither should have Stalin..

Nor Trotsky.


We can forward this to a few more countries, even actual ones.
What puzzles more than a bit is the fact, that the fall of the so called communists later lead to the rise of rigth-wing-figures that can well be called fascists.
And more than ever it becomes clear that politics is the mere art of lying. Take for example the former leftwing-president Obama who is now a clear conservative. No "left" experiments. Change? Well, yes. But. Not now.
Or take the actual president Trump. Who is nothing but a constant and consequent lier.
Should such characters lead contries? Taking the problems ahead serious the answer should be clear. But Democracy has given it (that's the difference to the USSR, but it makes it no better).
Okay, Trump didn't even achieve the majority at all. But that's a system's fault. And he will try to hit the gap again.
  

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MNb
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #23 - 11/20/19 at 19:48:14
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 11/20/19 at 19:36:39:
I support neither Brezhnev nor Hönecker. Neither of them should have been the one to lead their respective countries. But then again, neither should have Stalin..

Nor Trotsky.


Leon_Trotsky wrote on 11/20/19 at 19:36:39:
It was my attempt at irony. But apparently my non=literal messages always seem to get misconstrued.

Not by me, but as a Dutchman I understand German as well as English. Moreover I had seen the cartoon and the text before.

Leon_Trotsky wrote on 11/20/19 at 19:42:09:
Almost 30 million people have no healthcare in USA, and over a third of all Americans live paycheque to paycheque. Even in the worst moments of DDR this would not have happened.

But the USA has a political system that makes it possible, even if it's difficult, to correct such injustices, while the DDR had not. Nor had the Soviet-Union when Trotsky still held a powerful position. Trotsky was as cruel a suppressor as Stalin, as my political soulmates in Russia 1919-1922 learned the hard way. Your nick doesn't speak for you, no matter how much I like your comments on chess.
  

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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #22 - 11/20/19 at 19:42:09
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motörhead wrote on 11/20/19 at 18:20:17:
Just look at the USA a country deeply devided, with lots of people suffering in ways (in concern to Living Standards) worse then in the former GDR in the early eighties (that is a matter of statistics). Just compare the care factor.


Almost 30 million people have no healthcare in USA, and over a third of all Americans live paycheque to paycheque. Even in the worst moments of DDR this would not have happened.
  
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #21 - 11/20/19 at 19:36:39
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I support neither Brezhnev nor Hönecker. Neither of them should have been the one to lead their respective countries. But then again, neither should have Stalin.

Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 14:45:40:
Yes, the message in the picture was negative, obviously. The song and video in the Youtube link and the word "commemorate", on the other hand, were positive (or, alternatively, ironic).

So all I said was it could be that Leon_Trotsky meant exactly what he said. I half expected him to clear that up himself. I was open to both possibilties, and that is somehow closed-minded?

I think you're just being needlessly hostile here.


It was my attempt at irony. But apparently my non=literal messages always seem to get misconstrued.

In any case, people hurl insults at me on a daily basis. Receiving a few more here is not really that much for me.
  
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #20 - 11/20/19 at 18:20:17
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Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 17:22:02:
MNb wrote on 11/20/19 at 16:19:06:
Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 14:45:40:
I think you're just being needlessly hostile here.

I don't think it needless as long as you think it possible that someone who calls himself Trotsky supports Brezhnev and Honegger; that's a strong sign of a closed mind.

This mind has forgotten most of what it once knew about the political differences between the central historical figures within Communism. But that doesn't make it "closed".

I only want to add that it's possible to take a wide variety of attitudes to the DDR. It must be possible to commemorate some aspects of it while not necessarily supporting Brezhnev and Honegger?

I think I understand what you're thinking about the irony point, but honestly I was just trying to say he clearly appears to be somewhere on the far left politically, and for all I know he's honest about that. The blog name is one sign.


Let's take it as it is. The fall of the Berlin Walls brought "freedom" to the eastern hemisphere. But that "freedom" to many became an unreachable aspect. As in the "winner's" (i.e. capitalism) world you need money to evolve freedom.
So many (by far not everybody) had no gain but felt a loss of some sort of security and order.
Is that, was followed after the fall of the wall a better world?
I would say: it is another world with comparable problems.
Just look at the USA a country deeply devided, with lots of people suffering in ways (in concern to Living Standards) worse then in the former GDR in the early eighties (that is a matter of statistics). Just compare the care factor.
So it ist not allone the question whether the earlier times were "better".
To me the main question is, whether we can cope with the rising problems in the world.
The signs are not to good.
And the main problem is the same that allready stood at the craddle of communism: Inequality. 
By the way: The GDR-guy had the name Honecker, not Honegger.
  

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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #19 - 11/20/19 at 17:22:02
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MNb wrote on 11/20/19 at 16:19:06:
Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 14:45:40:
I think you're just being needlessly hostile here.

I don't think it needless as long as you think it possible that someone who calls himself Trotsky supports Brezhnev and Honegger; that's a strong sign of a closed mind.

This mind has forgotten most of what it once knew about the political differences between the central historical figures within Communism. But that doesn't make it "closed".

I only want to add that it's possible to take a wide variety of attitudes to the DDR. It must be possible to commemorate some aspects of it while not necessarily supporting Brezhnev and Honegger?

I think I understand what you're thinking about the irony point, but honestly I was just trying to say he clearly appears to be somewhere on the far left politically, and for all I know he's honest about that. The blog name is one sign.
  

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MNb
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #18 - 11/20/19 at 16:19:06
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Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 14:45:40:
I think you're just being needlessly hostile here.

I don't think it needless as long as you think it possible that someone who calls himself Trotsky supports Brezhnev and Honegger; that's a strong sign of a closed mind. So is this:

Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 11:12:42:
unless you think it's all a display of irony, but that's not my impression).



This increased the hostility, but it has another cause that has nothing to do with this topic. That's my last word.
  

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Stigma
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Re: Modernised Berlin Wall
Reply #17 - 11/20/19 at 14:45:40
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MNb wrote on 11/20/19 at 13:37:36:
Stigma wrote on 11/20/19 at 11:12:42:
Why is that?

I answered that question already in my previous comment, in the part you carefully omitted when you quoted me. If you happen to think that the subtitle I translated is an expression of DDR-nostalgia I advise you to work on your open mind indeed. Let me help you on your way: "deathly love" has a negative meaning and hence doesn't exactly express support for Brezhnev and Honegger.

Yes, the message in the picture was negative, obviously. The song and video in the Youtube link and the word "commemorate", on the other hand, were positive (or, alternatively, ironic).

So all I said was it could be that Leon_Trotsky meant exactly what he said. I half expected him to clear that up himself. I was open to both possibilties, and that is somehow closed-minded?

I think you're just being needlessly hostile here.
  

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