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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov (Read 22334 times)
Pawnpusher
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #38 - 06/16/20 at 19:44:49
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After 1e4 e5 2 Nf3 d6 they recommend 3 d4 .
  
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #37 - 06/16/20 at 13:39:15
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As Squeezing 1.e4 e5 is a repertoire book for White the authors give several move orders leading to the Steinitz (and also to the Philidor):

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nc6 4.Bb5 (sorry, I make many typos these days)
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nc6 4.Nc3 Bg4 5.Bb5
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nc3 d6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nxd4
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 d6 5.d4.

So they indeed investigate 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nc6 4.Bb5 Bd7 5.Nc3 exd4 6.Nxd4 g6.
  
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #36 - 06/16/20 at 08:55:12
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MNb wrote on 06/16/20 at 05:32:37:
Also after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.Bb5 exd4 and 4...Bd7.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Do you mean they think white is clearly better after both 4.d4 exd4 and 4.Bb5 Bd7? I'm a little surprised they give two 4th moves for white here.

1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 d6
3.Nc3
(Do they give this move? I consider 3.d4 better because of the next note.)
3...Nc6
(Black has 3...c5!? which I have played as black. I think black is closer to equality than in the Philidor.)
4.Bb5
(No need at the moment, simply 4.d4, only after 4...Nf6 5.Bb5. Probably best now is 5...exd4 but 6.Qxd4!? I try to avoid this line as black. Of course 6.Nxd4 is valid. I'm curious which move they prefer.)
4...Bd7
(4...exd4 is not possible yet.)
5.d4 exd4
(5...Nf6 is the same as 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 d6 5.d4 Bd7)
6.Nxd4 g6!?
(is the line I mentioned in the New player opening advice thread. No doubt they cover this. Since I'm also curious what they give here, it seems I need to order yet another opening book.)
  
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #35 - 06/16/20 at 05:32:37
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/15/20 at 22:44:48:
No doubt you meant 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nc3 d6.

Thanks, I corrected it.

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/15/20 at 22:44:48:
But speaking of the line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 d6, how is white doing after 4.d4 (I assume) 4...Bg4!?. It feels a little better for white but I found the positions interesting and a little tricky to handle, as white.

Clear advantage for White according to the authors.

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/15/20 at 22:44:48:
MNb wrote on 06/15/20 at 17:13:24:
Given the thread New player opening advise: the authors make the Steinitz look very unattractive.

Certainly 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 d6 (?! maybe even ?) 5.d4 Bd7 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3 with O-O-O is very unpleasant for black. I would say except for falling into the Dresden Trap this is the worst form of the Steinitz Defense.

Also after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.Bb5 exd4 and 4...Bd7.
  
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #34 - 06/15/20 at 22:44:48
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MNb wrote on 06/15/20 at 17:13:24:
The reason Khalifman and Soloviov pay so much attention to the Philidor is the slightly inconvenient move order 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 d6 when 4.d4 Nbd7 5.Bc4 is objectively best.

No doubt you meant 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nc3 d6. But speaking of the line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 d6, how is white doing after 4.d4 (I assume) 4...Bg4!?. It feels a little better for white but I found the positions interesting and a little tricky to handle, as white.

MNb wrote on 06/15/20 at 17:13:24:
Given the thread New player opening advise: the authors make the Steinitz look very unattractive.

Certainly 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 d6 (?! maybe even ?) 5.d4 Bd7 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3 with O-O-O is very unpleasant for black. I would say except for falling into the Dresden Trap this is the worst form of the Steinitz Defense.
  
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #33 - 06/15/20 at 17:13:24
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I bought the book a few months ago and indeed it's indispensable for anyone who wants to play it either as White or as Black. A few remarks:

The title Squeezing 1.e4 e5 is a bit misleading; there is an abundance of attractive direct attacks against Black's king in the book. So it's not that different from Attacking the Flexible Sicilian.

The reason Khalifman and Soloviov pay so much attention to the Philidor is the slightly inconvenient move order 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nc3 d6 when 4.d4 Nbd7 5.Bc4 is objectively best. The authors point out that this is unlikely to happen. So to save work you might prepare a sideline; mavericks should take a look at the Shirov Gambit 5.g4. At the other hand the Hanham-Philidor can also be reached via 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 Nbd7, so that's one remedy for two problems.

A remarkable flaw is the neglect of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bb4 5.O-O O-O 6.Bxc6 dxc6 7.d3 Qd6. To me this looks like Black's best.

Given the thread New player opening advise: the authors make the Steinitz look very unattractive.

So if you play the Ruy Lopez you should get this as well.
« Last Edit: 06/16/20 at 05:25:21 by MNb »  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #32 - 01/05/20 at 23:16:27
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grandpatzer wrote on 01/05/20 at 18:07:07:
It’s interesting that 2...Qe7 is dealed with, too. I often have to meet 2...Qf6, too, in online games.


Magnus Carlsen as black likes to humiliate players in Banter Blitz on Chess24 with the following junk line:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d3 Qe7 5.Ng5? h6!

Cocky guy, but nowhere near as insufferable as Hikaru Smiley
  
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #31 - 01/05/20 at 18:07:07
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It’s interesting that 2...Qe7 is dealed with, too. I often have to meet 2...Qf6, too, in online games.
  
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #30 - 01/05/20 at 16:59:23
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tracke wrote on 01/05/20 at 04:46:59:
The Elephant ist encountered by 3.exd5 , the Latvian by 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.d4 d6 5.Nc4 fxe4 6.Nc3 .
One main game in the Petroff3Knights is Fressinet-WangYue, Huaian 2016, with some little suggestions on moves 12 and 19.
As I stated in an earlier post, the white treatment of the Philidor (2...d6) and the Modern Philidor (via 2...Nf6 3.Nc3 d6) is the biggest part of the book! As you can see in the free preview, Black‘s open approach is answered by g3/Bg2 and the closed set-up by the usual 7.a4/8.h3/9.Re1 . One important game is Paikidze-Kashlinskaya, Urgup 2004. [Btw, the diagram on page 106 is wrong]
In the Spanish4Knights with 4...Bd6 5.d3 0-0 the authors suggest 6.Bg5 h6 7.Bh4 Be7 8.h3N as the only way for White to fight for the advantage (2pages). Their mainline for Black would be 5...a6 6.Ba4 h6 7.a3 b5 8.Bb3 Bb7 and now 4 pages on 9.Ne2 or 9.Be3.

Well, I think I‘ve said enough. Go get the book!

tracke  Smiley


Thanks tracke, that was a very helpful post. I do plan to get the book as soon as New in Chess has it in stock, NIC being my preferred online shop, I'm kinda surprised they don't have it yet though. Sad
  
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #29 - 01/05/20 at 11:52:33
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Thank you so much, tracke. Will buy this book.
  
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #28 - 01/05/20 at 04:46:59
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The Elephant ist encountered by 3.exd5 , the Latvian by 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.d4 d6 5.Nc4 fxe4 6.Nc3 .
One main game in the Petroff3Knights is Fressinet-WangYue, Huaian 2016, with some little suggestions on moves 12 and 19.
As I stated in an earlier post, the white treatment of the Philidor (2...d6) and the Modern Philidor (via 2...Nf6 3.Nc3 d6) is the biggest part of the book! As you can see in the free preview, Black‘s open approach is answered by g3/Bg2 and the closed set-up by the usual 7.a4/8.h3/9.Re1 . One important game is Paikidze-Kashlinskaya, Urgup 2004. [Btw, the diagram on page 106 is wrong]
In the Spanish4Knights with 4...Bd6 5.d3 0-0 the authors suggest 6.Bg5 h6 7.Bh4 Be7 8.h3N as the only way for White to fight for the advantage (2pages). Their mainline for Black would be 5...a6 6.Ba4 h6 7.a3 b5 8.Bb3 Bb7 and now 4 pages on 9.Ne2 or 9.Be3.

Well, I think I‘ve said enough. Go get the book!

tracke  Smiley
  
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #27 - 01/05/20 at 00:58:45
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tracke wrote on 12/31/19 at 20:26:17:
I got my copy this morning from Niggemann. Looks „practical“ and good!

I have to confess that I‘m no expert in these lines, neither from the white nor from the black side. So in the last hours I‘ve just cross-checked the book‘s lines superfically against some other resources ...
In the preface Khalifman characterizes his approach in this book as scientifically minimalistic: practical and riskless but always „on the bright side of the equality“. In fact the authors claim an overall += but of course in many positions it‘s not easy to decide if White‘s advantage is small, very small, microscopic or non-existent ...

Probably you want some lines, a few at least?!
A) Rubinstein: 4.Bb5 Nd4 5.0-0 c6!? 6.Bd3!? and after 6...Nxf3+ 7.Qxf3 d6 8.Be2 Be7 9.d3 0-0 10.Qg3 there are 4 pages of analysis, obviously improving on some recent games of Andreikin.
B) Symmetrical mainline: 4.Bb5 Bb4 5.0-0 0-0 6.Lxc6!? dxc6 7.d3 (from now on White‘s play is simple and harmless but straight forward!)
B1) 7...Bxc3 8.bxc3 Bg4 9.h3 Bxf3 10.Qxf3 Qd6 (as recommended by Ntirlis2016 and Johnson2018) and now after both 11.Qe2 (Nimzowitsch-Vajda 1926) and 11.Qe3 (Kasperian-Korchnoi 1952) the book offers an improvement.
B2) 7...Nd7 8.Ne2 (also 8.Bg5!?) Re8 9.Ng3 Nf8 and now 10.d4!? or 10.Be3 (along Firouzja-Yi 2016).
B3) 7...Bg4 8.h3 Bh5! 9.Kh2!? (with the idea 10.g4) is critical but += according to the authors

If you play the Spanish4Knights with White or Black you probably do not come around buying this book!?

tracke  Smiley


Iv'e been following your discussion with interest and was wondering about the following combative Line:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bd6!? 5.d3 0-0

Does Khalifman now go for the wild stuff involving an early g4 or does he simply 0-0 and follow up in typical Lopez style with Ne2,Ng3.

Happy New Year,

Toppy
  
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #26 - 01/04/20 at 13:50:01
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Tauromachie wrote on 01/02/20 at 13:13:36:
I received my copy today too Smiley

Playing 4..Bc5 against the spanish 4 Knights myself this was basically the first line I checked.

They indeed go for 6.Nxe5 and after the complications white regains his piece and puts the pawn on f5 - which proves to be quite annoying for black !

The line I used to have in my files ended with equality after black plays ..c6 and ..d5. But after checking the lines in the book blacks task is not so simple after all..

White is planing to expand on the kingside by the means of (Kh1) Rae1-g4 and black lacks counterplay.
Ultimately I found a solution which works just fine for me and is not mentioned by the authors.

However.. I can imagine if you have the carefree mindset that after the seemingly equalizing and symmetrical ..c6 + ..d5 "this will be an easy game for black" you can be in for an unpleasant suprise.



Could you kindly briefly tell us what lines are suggested vs the non 2...Nc6 Defenses? Especially Philidor, Latvian Gambit, Petroff? Thx.
  
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #25 - 01/02/20 at 20:17:09
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tracke wrote on 01/02/20 at 08:01:34:
Well, Syzygy, after 4.Bb5 Nd4 5.0-0 c6 6.Bd3 Nxf3+ 7.Qxf3 g6!? the circumstances have changed as Black has played (too) many pawn moves. Here White indeed plays 8.Bc4! d6 9.d3 Bg7 and now 10.h3 or 10.a4 (2 pages of analysis). Black cannot risk 8...b5?! 9.Bb3 a5? 10.d4! +/-


After 10. h3, however, it appears that Black can risk 10...b5 11. Bb3 a5, and after a continuation like 12. a4 b4 13. Nd1 O-O 14. Ne3 h6 Black's position is quite pleasant.

Stopping the queenside expansion with 10. a4 seems more critical, but after something like 10...a5 11. h3 O-O 12. Be3 Qe7 I would be tempted to claim equality, i.e. 13. d4 Nxe4! 14. Nxe4 d5. The position feels like a harmless Italian where Black has even managed to get away with a kingside fianchetto.
  
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Re: Squeezing 1e4 e5 by Khalifman/Soloviov
Reply #24 - 01/02/20 at 13:13:36
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I received my copy today too Smiley

Playing 4..Bc5 against the spanish 4 Knights myself this was basically the first line I checked.

They indeed go for 6.Nxe5 and after the complications white regains his piece and puts the pawn on f5 - which proves to be quite annoying for black !

The line I used to have in my files ended with equality after black plays ..c6 and ..d5. But after checking the lines in the book blacks task is not so simple after all..

White is planing to expand on the kingside by the means of (Kh1) Rae1-g4 and black lacks counterplay.
Ultimately I found a solution which works just fine for me and is not mentioned by the authors.

However.. I can imagine if you have the carefree mindset that after the seemingly equalizing and symmetrical ..c6 + ..d5 "this will be an easy game for black" you can be in for an unpleasant suprise.
  
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