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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito (Read 24834 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #45 - 10/01/20 at 22:04:58
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IsaVulpes wrote on 10/01/20 at 21:15:25:
Yes, the whole point of the odd Nd2 is to be able to play Bc4 afterwards, taking over the d5-Square. It's by no means forced, but I thought it was a cute concept

Regarding 10.Bd3 b5, that looks to be """objectively""" better, but you have to learn the only-move-roads of both 12.Nd5 and 12.Qg3 b4 13.Nd5, where if you succeed in recalling 20moves+ you get an ending you can't really play for anything (admittedly White can't either); as well as calmer but still visually appealing moves, such as 12.Kb1/12.a3 that just maintain the tension in the position. 
Add the entire 10.g4 mainline on top, and at that point I wonder.. why not just play the PP Wink


I still think this is a lot less to learn than the PP and you have a better chance of figuring things out if you forget the analysis or White plays a novelty.  I still haven't seen any White try than would unduly worry me.  Having said that, I haven't played the Najdorf in many many years.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #44 - 10/01/20 at 21:15:25
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Yes, the whole point of the odd Nd2 is to be able to play Bc4 afterwards, taking over the d5-Square. It's by no means forced, but I thought it was a cute concept

Regarding 10.Bd3 b5, that looks to be """objectively""" better, but you have to learn the only-move-roads of both 12.Nd5 and 12.Qg3 b4 13.Nd5, where if you succeed in recalling 20moves+ you get an ending you can't really play for anything (admittedly White can't either); as well as calmer but still visually appealing moves, such as 12.Kb1/12.a3 that just maintain the tension in the position. 
Add the entire 10.g4 mainline on top, and at that point I wonder.. why not just play the PP Wink
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #43 - 10/01/20 at 18:42:29
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When will I learn to *always* click that little button before posting my opinion? Although in this case I should have noticed without the engine, I still need to learn that new habit.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #42 - 10/01/20 at 16:53:34
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Er, 16. Bc4 isn't dropping a piece due to knight-fork tactics.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #41 - 10/01/20 at 16:19:33
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Agree with Glenn Snow. Something is amiss in the variation given by IsaVulpes: 
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bg5 e6 7.f4 Be7 8.Qf3 Qc7 9.O-O-O Nbd7 10.Bd3 h6 11.Qh3 Nb6 12.f5 e5 13.Nb3 Bd7 14.Nd2 O-O-O 15.Bxf6 Bxf6 16.Bc4? is just dropping a piece. I only found one game with 14.Nd2 and white was reduced to waiting around for black to do something...


  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #40 - 10/01/20 at 01:10:41
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IsaVulpes wrote on 09/30/20 at 21:31:15:
BadDays wrote on 09/30/20 at 15:47:52:
Vigorito recommends 10.Bd3 h6 11.Bh4 g5

Do you like his coverage of 11.Qh3?

My current line there runs 11..Nb6 12.f5 e5 13.Nb3 Bd7 14.Nd2 000 15.Bf6: Bf6: 16.Bc4, with Nd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 to follow, and the entire position just feels like a long-term plus to me. 

Don't know if I missed some grand Black deviation, but there's not that much room for alternatives? DB is a pretty small game sample after 13.Nb3 - but rather crushing score, as well.


Are you sure you mean 14.Nd2?  That move doesn't make sense to me and should give Black the advantage.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #39 - 09/30/20 at 21:31:15
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BadDays wrote on 09/30/20 at 15:47:52:
Vigorito recommends 10.Bd3 h6 11.Bh4 g5

Do you like his coverage of 11.Qh3?

My current line there runs 11..Nb6 12.f5 e5 13.Nb3 Bd7 14.Nd2 000 15.Bf6: Bf6: 16.Bc4, with Nd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 to follow, and the entire position just feels like a long-term plus to me. 

Don't know if I missed some grand Black deviation, but there's not that much room for alternatives? DB is a pretty small game sample after 13.Nb3 - but rather crushing score, as well.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #38 - 09/30/20 at 15:47:52
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IsaVulpes wrote on 09/30/20 at 12:19:27:

Regarding the book, does he recommend something particularly unique against 10.Bd3 in 6.Bg5? The more I look at it, the more it feels like some very good chances for a White advantage


Vigorito recommends 10.Bd3 h6 11.Bh4 g5, although his analysis isn't deep enough in my opinion. For example, he does not analyze 12.fxg5 Ne5 13.Qe2 Nfg4 14.Bg3 hxg5 15.Kb1 Bd7 16.Qd2 Nf6 17.h3, which seems to score fine for Black in corr. games but looks tricky to handle in my opinion. That position can be reached by a couple of different move orders. I haven't spent much time looking at that line myself, so it might very well be fine.

Does White really have a chance for an edge after 10.Bd3 b5? I only started looking at the Najdorf again recently, but my old knowledge is that Black is fine if they know their stuff.

  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #37 - 09/30/20 at 12:19:27
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That very much depends on the Anti. Calling 3.Bb5 toothless is just silly.

Regarding the book, does he recommend something particularly unique against 10.Bd3 in 6.Bg5? The more I look at it, the more it feels like some very good chances for a White advantage
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #36 - 09/27/20 at 19:19:50
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 01/21/20 at 20:34:21:
IM_Serious wrote on 12/18/19 at 00:55:25:


The Moscow Variation is 6 pages of analysis on 3...Nd7.

For 3...Bd7 the reader is referred to Ftacnik, for 3...Nc6 to Kotronias.


I think that Najdorf players would have to be prepared for many of these anti-Sicilians instead of White aquiescing with 3. d4.

Which sometimes makes me wonder if playing the Najdorf (or any other Sicilian) is even worth it anymore since even elite GMs play anti-Sicilians, e.g. Carlsen and Caruana both.


Well I’ve played the Sicilian for nearly 30 years and the only move that makes me remotely uneasy is 3 d4!

I think Ant-Sicilians are an attempt to avoid preparations and theory but in reality they are pretty toothless.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #35 - 05/18/20 at 06:45:08
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The author proposes 6.Bc4 e6 and 7...Nc6 against any White 7th move, not just against 7.Be3. This is perhaps a bit more work than other playable repertoires against 6.Bc4, but the Najdorf entails a lot of work in any event and Vigorito makes a good case for his choice.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #34 - 05/17/20 at 21:38:42
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Well, transposing to a major line like the Velimirovic in such a minor and unchallenging Line (7.Be3) seems rather impractical to me, or am I mistaken?
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #33 - 05/17/20 at 06:39:53
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mxstoe wrote on 05/16/20 at 10:58:59:
What does he recommend against 6.Bc4 e6 and now not Bb3 ?
(for example 7. Be3: does he transpose to the Velimirovic with Nc6 or does he recommend another move? /7. 0-0 and here 7....Nc6 or another move?)

He recommends 7...Nc6 against everything, including 7.Bb3.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #32 - 05/16/20 at 19:56:39
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 01/21/20 at 20:34:21:
IM_Serious wrote on 12/18/19 at 00:55:25:


The Moscow Variation is 6 pages of analysis on 3...Nd7.

For 3...Bd7 the reader is referred to Ftacnik, for 3...Nc6 to Kotronias.


I think that Najdorf players would have to be prepared for many of these anti-Sicilians instead of White aquiescing with 3. d4.

Which sometimes makes me wonder if playing the Najdorf (or any other Sicilian) is even worth it anymore since even elite GMs play anti-Sicilians, e.g. Carlsen and Caruana both.


I think Sielecki says 3.Bb5 is effectively the current main line of the sicilian (or at least he said something to that effect when discussing his 1.e4 repertoire.
  
"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #31 - 05/16/20 at 10:58:59
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What does he recommend against 6.Bc4 e6 and now not Bb3 ?
(for example 7. Be3: does he transpose to the Velimirovic with Nc6 or does he recommend another move? /7. 0-0 and here 7....Nc6 or another move?)
  
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