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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito (Read 8732 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #45 - 10/01/20 at 22:04:58
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IsaVulpes wrote on 10/01/20 at 21:15:25:
Yes, the whole point of the odd Nd2 is to be able to play Bc4 afterwards, taking over the d5-Square. It's by no means forced, but I thought it was a cute concept

Regarding 10.Bd3 b5, that looks to be """objectively""" better, but you have to learn the only-move-roads of both 12.Nd5 and 12.Qg3 b4 13.Nd5, where if you succeed in recalling 20moves+ you get an ending you can't really play for anything (admittedly White can't either); as well as calmer but still visually appealing moves, such as 12.Kb1/12.a3 that just maintain the tension in the position.
Add the entire 10.g4 mainline on top, and at that point I wonder.. why not just play the PP Wink


I still think this is a lot less to learn than the PP and you have a better chance of figuring things out if you forget the analysis or White plays a novelty.  I still haven't seen any White try than would unduly worry me.  Having said that, I haven't played the Najdorf in many many years.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #44 - 10/01/20 at 21:15:25
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Yes, the whole point of the odd Nd2 is to be able to play Bc4 afterwards, taking over the d5-Square. It's by no means forced, but I thought it was a cute concept

Regarding 10.Bd3 b5, that looks to be """objectively""" better, but you have to learn the only-move-roads of both 12.Nd5 and 12.Qg3 b4 13.Nd5, where if you succeed in recalling 20moves+ you get an ending you can't really play for anything (admittedly White can't either); as well as calmer but still visually appealing moves, such as 12.Kb1/12.a3 that just maintain the tension in the position.
Add the entire 10.g4 mainline on top, and at that point I wonder.. why not just play the PP Wink
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #43 - 10/01/20 at 18:42:29
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When will I learn to *always* click that little button before posting my opinion? Although in this case I should have noticed without the engine, I still need to learn that new habit.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #42 - 10/01/20 at 16:53:34
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Er, 16. Bc4 isn't dropping a piece due to knight-fork tactics.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #41 - 10/01/20 at 16:19:33
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Agree with Glenn Snow. Something is amiss in the variation given by IsaVulpes:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bg5 e6 7.f4 Be7 8.Qf3 Qc7 9.O-O-O Nbd7 10.Bd3 h6 11.Qh3 Nb6 12.f5 e5 13.Nb3 Bd7 14.Nd2 O-O-O 15.Bxf6 Bxf6 16.Bc4? is just dropping a piece. I only found one game with 14.Nd2 and white was reduced to waiting around for black to do something...


  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #40 - 10/01/20 at 01:10:41
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IsaVulpes wrote on 09/30/20 at 21:31:15:
BadDays wrote on 09/30/20 at 15:47:52:
Vigorito recommends 10.Bd3 h6 11.Bh4 g5

Do you like his coverage of 11.Qh3?

My current line there runs 11..Nb6 12.f5 e5 13.Nb3 Bd7 14.Nd2 000 15.Bf6: Bf6: 16.Bc4, with Nd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 to follow, and the entire position just feels like a long-term plus to me.

Don't know if I missed some grand Black deviation, but there's not that much room for alternatives? DB is a pretty small game sample after 13.Nb3 - but rather crushing score, as well.


Are you sure you mean 14.Nd2?  That move doesn't make sense to me and should give Black the advantage.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #39 - 09/30/20 at 21:31:15
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BadDays wrote on 09/30/20 at 15:47:52:
Vigorito recommends 10.Bd3 h6 11.Bh4 g5

Do you like his coverage of 11.Qh3?

My current line there runs 11..Nb6 12.f5 e5 13.Nb3 Bd7 14.Nd2 000 15.Bf6: Bf6: 16.Bc4, with Nd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 to follow, and the entire position just feels like a long-term plus to me.

Don't know if I missed some grand Black deviation, but there's not that much room for alternatives? DB is a pretty small game sample after 13.Nb3 - but rather crushing score, as well.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #38 - 09/30/20 at 15:47:52
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IsaVulpes wrote on 09/30/20 at 12:19:27:
Regarding the book, does he recommend something particularly unique against 10.Bd3 in 6.Bg5? The more I look at it, the more it feels like some very good chances for a White advantage


Vigorito recommends 10.Bd3 h6 11.Bh4 g5, although his analysis isn't deep enough in my opinion. For example, he does not analyze 12.fxg5 Ne5 13.Qe2 Nfg4 14.Bg3 hxg5 15.Kb1 Bd7 16.Qd2 Nf6 17.h3, which seems to score fine for Black in corr. games but looks tricky to handle in my opinion. That position can be reached by a couple of different move orders. I haven't spent much time looking at that line myself, so it might very well be fine.

Does White really have a chance for an edge after 10.Bd3 b5? I only started looking at the Najdorf again recently, but my old knowledge is that Black is fine if they know their stuff.

  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #37 - 09/30/20 at 12:19:27
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That very much depends on the Anti. Calling 3.Bb5 toothless is just silly.

Regarding the book, does he recommend something particularly unique against 10.Bd3 in 6.Bg5? The more I look at it, the more it feels like some very good chances for a White advantage
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #36 - 09/27/20 at 19:19:50
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 01/21/20 at 20:34:21:
IM_Serious wrote on 12/18/19 at 00:55:25:
The Moscow Variation is 6 pages of analysis on 3...Nd7.

For 3...Bd7 the reader is referred to Ftacnik, for 3...Nc6 to Kotronias.


I think that Najdorf players would have to be prepared for many of these anti-Sicilians instead of White aquiescing with 3. d4.

Which sometimes makes me wonder if playing the Najdorf (or any other Sicilian) is even worth it anymore since even elite GMs play anti-Sicilians, e.g. Carlsen and Caruana both.


Well I’ve played the Sicilian for nearly 30 years and the only move that makes me remotely uneasy is 3 d4!

I think Ant-Sicilians are an attempt to avoid preparations and theory but in reality they are pretty toothless.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #35 - 05/18/20 at 06:45:08
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The author proposes 6.Bc4 e6 and 7...Nc6 against any White 7th move, not just against 7.Be3. This is perhaps a bit more work than other playable repertoires against 6.Bc4, but the Najdorf entails a lot of work in any event and Vigorito makes a good case for his choice.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #34 - 05/17/20 at 21:38:42
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Well, transposing to a major line like the Velimirovic in such a minor and unchallenging Line (7.Be3) seems rather impractical to me, or am I mistaken?
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #33 - 05/17/20 at 06:39:53
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mxstoe wrote on 05/16/20 at 10:58:59:
What does he recommend against 6.Bc4 e6 and now not Bb3 ?
(for example 7. Be3: does he transpose to the Velimirovic with Nc6 or does he recommend another move? /7. 0-0 and here 7....Nc6 or another move?)

He recommends 7...Nc6 against everything, including 7.Bb3.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #32 - 05/16/20 at 19:56:39
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 01/21/20 at 20:34:21:
IM_Serious wrote on 12/18/19 at 00:55:25:
The Moscow Variation is 6 pages of analysis on 3...Nd7.

For 3...Bd7 the reader is referred to Ftacnik, for 3...Nc6 to Kotronias.


I think that Najdorf players would have to be prepared for many of these anti-Sicilians instead of White aquiescing with 3. d4.

Which sometimes makes me wonder if playing the Najdorf (or any other Sicilian) is even worth it anymore since even elite GMs play anti-Sicilians, e.g. Carlsen and Caruana both.


I think Sielecki says 3.Bb5 is effectively the current main line of the sicilian (or at least he said something to that effect when discussing his 1.e4 repertoire.
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #31 - 05/16/20 at 10:58:59
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What does he recommend against 6.Bc4 e6 and now not Bb3 ?
(for example 7. Be3: does he transpose to the Velimirovic with Nc6 or does he recommend another move? /7. 0-0 and here 7....Nc6 or another move?)
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #30 - 01/21/20 at 20:34:21
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IM_Serious wrote on 12/18/19 at 00:55:25:
The Moscow Variation is 6 pages of analysis on 3...Nd7.

For 3...Bd7 the reader is referred to Ftacnik, for 3...Nc6 to Kotronias.


I think that Najdorf players would have to be prepared for many of these anti-Sicilians instead of White aquiescing with 3. d4.

Which sometimes makes me wonder if playing the Najdorf (or any other Sicilian) is even worth it anymore since even elite GMs play anti-Sicilians, e.g. Carlsen and Caruana both.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #29 - 01/21/20 at 19:27:27
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As a confirmed Caro Kann player, I must confess I have succumbed to the temptation to buy this book. I put it down to trying to play the Najdorf when I was first getting into the game, driven by Fischer hero worship (a not uncommon comment I know). Anyway, I came to my senses and played the Open Games for years, before getting into the Caro. I still think the Caro will remain my main defence but I have always been tempted to try the Najdorf, at least in friendlies or on the internet. This book seemed to hit all the right notes e.g. ...,e5 whenever possible, the "sensible" main line against Bg5 and the stated intention to try to "teach" the Najdorf to it's readers. I'm impressed at first glance and have scanned out the basic repertoire in ChessBase. I intend to use it, read based on games played and if the worst it does is sharpen my tactical ability and feel for the initiative, I will be very satisfied. I'll also probably play better in the sharp Caro main line with Bf5 !
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #28 - 12/24/19 at 22:49:54
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #27 - 12/18/19 at 06:14:36
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BobbyDigital80 wrote on 12/18/19 at 04:42:50:
Does Vigorito's main line against 6.Bg5 have any forced drawing lines or does he advocate unclear lines where either side can play for a win?


White can force a draw in at least one line.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #26 - 12/18/19 at 04:42:50
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Does Vigorito's main line against 6.Bg5 have any forced drawing lines or does he advocate unclear lines where either side can play for a win?
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #25 - 12/18/19 at 00:55:25
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Laramonet wrote on 12/11/19 at 20:40:10:
Can anyone who has the book comment on the Anti-Sicilian Appendix mentioned on the contents page of the sample ?

After 536 pages of Najdorf analysis, the book concludes with an 8-page bonus.

The Appendix starts off referring the reader to:

Grandmaster Repertoire 6A  by Kotronias which is a 500-page book on just anti-Sicilians, and

Grandmaster Repertoire 6 by Ftacnik which also includes anti-Sicilian coverage.

Quote:
So why is this section even here?
Well, I have played the Sicilian for a long time, so I have formed my own opinions and I figured I'd share them here.

2.Nc3 Trickery is a one-page discussion, reminiscent of Transpo Tricks by Soltis.

The Moscow Variation is 6 pages of analysis on 3...Nd7.

For 3...Bd7 the reader is referred to Ftacnik, for 3...Nc6 to Kotronias.
« Last Edit: 12/18/19 at 01:58:25 by IM_Serious »  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #24 - 12/17/19 at 23:55:44
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Syzygy wrote on 12/17/19 at 07:06:43:
On a different note, does anyone know what the book recommends against the fashionable 6. Bd3 variation?


From the introduction:

Quote:
In general, we will play 6...e5 when we can, to get a ‘true’ Najdorf structure.
The main exceptions are 6.Bc4 and 6.Bg5 ... In these cases, we will play 6...e6


  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #23 - 12/17/19 at 23:50:13
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Bibs wrote on 12/15/19 at 10:36:26:
Welcome back exi! Haven't seen you in these parts for a while.

The line seems fine.

It is less abstract than the PP I think. More rational. It always baffled me that all these writers kept recommending the PP. Which is probably the least practical of all openings to include in any amateur repertoire. It may well be, arguably, 'theoretically equal-ish' but is a right 'mare to try to thread one's way through.

And I really do not think the line given in this PtN book is so dangerous for black. Or is it? Doesn't seem so from the analysis in the book (yes, I bought on FC platform), but I admit I am no expert, just an interested passer-by.



Thanks! I'm more of a lurker now.

At my level of play, I don't expect my opponents to know all the PP theory anyway so it hasn't been an issue. White is playing with even more risk than Black so I think it's a fair line. The forcing and initiative seeking play also makes sense to me. A lot of moves you can just eliminate on principle. I guess the biggest problem with it is that maybe someone could force a draw as White but I've never seen that.

Anyway, I don't have the book yet and I own more Najdorf books than I've actually read. Is there a particular line here that gets far better coverage than in other books? Basically, what's the selling point compared to most of the ones in the last year or so?
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #22 - 12/17/19 at 07:06:43
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On a different note, does anyone know what the book recommends against the fashionable 6. Bd3 variation?
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #21 - 12/16/19 at 14:39:24
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Bibs wrote on 12/15/19 at 10:36:26:
Welcome back exi! Haven't seen you in these parts for a while.

The line seems fine.

It is less abstract than the PP I think. More rational. It always baffled me that all these writers kept recommending the PP. Which is probably the least practical of all openings to include in any amateur repertoire. It may well be, arguably, 'theoretically equal-ish' but is a right 'mare to try to thread one's way through.

And I really do not think the line given in this PtN book is so dangerous for black. Or is it? Doesn't seem so from the analysis in the book (yes, I bought on FC platform), but I admit I am no expert, just an interested passer-by.


I am not an expert at all, status same as you (and not as strong player). But I have looked at the line a bit now, and it doesn't look like much fun for Black. I'd say that there is an improvement on the analyzed game in the side note, on move 22 (has been played in one corr-game before). I doubt that too many will find this, but the resulting variation looks rather thankless for Black. Sure, the knight on e5 is well placed, but to me it seems like White is playing for two results here.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #20 - 12/15/19 at 19:41:36
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Virtually all lines playing as Black against 6. Ag5 needs the Black player to have good nerves, and probably just as important, good control over his blood pressure.

13. f5 0-0 in the main line could be dangerous if one forgets the analysis during a game. This line, probably more than any in the entire book, needs to be committed to memory. I used to play the Najdorf when i was younger, and often my black games in 6. Ag5 ended before move 25 due to forgetting theory.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #19 - 12/15/19 at 14:42:36
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7...Be7 still looks like less theory than the Poisoned Pawn, Gelfand, etc. Saying "it looks like Black is going to get mated at any second" makes me wonder if you've even read the chapters? I have it on Forward Chess and it all looks pretty reasonable to me. Any it's what the author has played. In any case, there are a million Najdorf books that cover other lines. Did we need a third book on the Poisoned Pawn?
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #18 - 12/15/19 at 10:36:26
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Welcome back exi! Haven't seen you in these parts for a while.

The line seems fine.

It is less abstract than the PP I think. More rational. It always baffled me that all these writers kept recommending the PP. Which is probably the least practical of all openings to include in any amateur repertoire. It may well be, arguably, 'theoretically equal-ish' but is a right 'mare to try to thread one's way through.

And I really do not think the line given in this PtN book is so dangerous for black. Or is it? Doesn't seem so from the analysis in the book (yes, I bought on FC platform), but I admit I am no expert, just an interested passer-by.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #17 - 12/15/19 at 09:32:04
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I'm really struggling to understand why he'd ever pick Be7. I'm sure it's ultimately sound if Black plays the correct moves but it always looks like Black's about to get mated at any second and White isn't playing with the same risk as in the Poisioned Pawn. It even seems like it's just as much theory in some of the lines presented here. He'd probably avoid more theory with some early Nbd7 move instead. Can anyone really explain this to me? Am I missing some advantage of Be7 besides just the fact that the author is very familiar with it?
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #16 - 12/13/19 at 06:41:40
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To my eye (actually Stockfish's eye) black survives the first onslaught. The resulting positions have some similarities with the 13.-Bxg5+ line - white has the more active and more compact position which is easier to play, but with perfect play black can hold.

The main line seems to be 13.-0-0 14.Rg1 b4 15.Nce2 e5 16.f6 ed 17.fe Re8 18. Nxd4 Ne5 19.Qf4

I've ordered the book. It is interesting to see what we can find in it.
  

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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #15 - 12/12/19 at 08:50:28
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I think it looks magnificent Smiley Scary yes, but oh so very principled and sicillian like.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #14 - 12/11/19 at 22:14:34
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dali wrote on 12/11/19 at 21:48:48:
what line of 6.Bg5 doesn't look scary?


I mean compared to other lines of 6. Ag5 even it looks scary.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #13 - 12/11/19 at 22:07:28
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Laramonet wrote on 12/11/19 at 20:40:10:
Can anyone who has the book comment on the Anti-Sicilian Appendix mentioned on the contents page of the sample ?


It is a discussion on what to chose against the Anti-Sicilians as a Najdorf player (not a full repertoire). The main topics are 2. Nc3 and the Moscow variation.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #12 - 12/11/19 at 21:48:48
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 12/10/19 at 22:14:31:
I dare say that this line looks scary for Black ever since I looked at this 15 years ago. I wonder what he recommends in the 13...0-0 line.


what line of 6.Bg5 doesn't look scary? There's always the Petroff!
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #11 - 12/11/19 at 20:40:10
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Can anyone who has the book comment on the Anti-Sicilian Appendix mentioned on the contents page of the sample ?
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #10 - 12/10/19 at 22:14:31
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I dare say that this line looks scary for Black ever since I looked at this 15 years ago. I wonder what he recommends in the 13...0-0 line.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #9 - 12/10/19 at 20:52:33
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Sorry , 
13.-Bg5, -Nc5, or -0-0
  

1.Nf3! -  beat your opponent by killing his zest for life.
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #8 - 12/10/19 at 12:18:58
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Lauri Torni wrote on 12/10/19 at 08:15:54:
fling wrote on 12/06/19 at 15:53:51:
I have bought it, couldn't help myself! I normally play the Kan, and have been looking at the Sveshnikov, but really want to learn the Najdorf as well, lol. Haven't had a look at the details yet, but I like the idea with mixed lines and whole annotated games.


Could you tell what is the line against 6.Bg5?

6.-e6 7.f4 Be7 8.Qf3 Qc7 9.0-0-0 Nbd7 10.g4 b5 11. Bxf6 Nxf6 12. g5  Nd7 13. f5 and now what?

13.-0-0 or 13.-Bb7?

13...Bb7 is a blunder there, so weird question
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #7 - 12/10/19 at 08:45:24
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Lauri Torni wrote on 12/10/19 at 08:15:54:
fling wrote on 12/06/19 at 15:53:51:
I have bought it, couldn't help myself! I normally play the Kan, and have been looking at the Sveshnikov, but really want to learn the Najdorf as well, lol. Haven't had a look at the details yet, but I like the idea with mixed lines and whole annotated games.


Could you tell what is the line against 6.Bg5?

6.-e6 7.f4 Be7 8.Qf3 Qc7 9.0-0-0 Nbd7 10.g4 b5 11. Bxf6 Nxf6 12. g5  Nd7 13. f5 and now what?

13.-0-0 or 13.-Bb7?


13...0-0
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #6 - 12/10/19 at 08:15:54
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fling wrote on 12/06/19 at 15:53:51:
I have bought it, couldn't help myself! I normally play the Kan, and have been looking at the Sveshnikov, but really want to learn the Najdorf as well, lol. Haven't had a look at the details yet, but I like the idea with mixed lines and whole annotated games.


Could you tell what is the line against 6.Bg5?

6.-e6 7.f4 Be7 8.Qf3 Qc7 9.0-0-0 Nbd7 10.g4 b5 11. Bxf6 Nxf6 12. g5  Nd7 13. f5 and now what?

13.-0-0 or 13.-Bb7?
  

1.Nf3! -  beat your opponent by killing his zest for life.
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #5 - 12/09/19 at 16:05:03
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #4 - 12/07/19 at 09:32:12
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No
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #3 - 12/07/19 at 00:21:47
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Is it released early in paper form.
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #2 - 12/06/19 at 16:40:08
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Re 6. Bg5, in the other thread I wondered about the choice(s) against 10. g4 and 10. Bd3.

I'll hazard a guess that the book may not have anything to say about Carlsen's curious 6...e6 7. f3.  (Something for the next Open Sicilians update?)
  
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Re: Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
Reply #1 - 12/06/19 at 15:53:51
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I have bought it, couldn't help myself! I normally play the Kan, and have been looking at the Sveshnikov, but really want to learn the Najdorf as well, lol. Haven't had a look at the details yet, but I like the idea with mixed lines and whole annotated games.
  
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Playing the Najdorf - Vigorito
12/06/19 at 15:50:36
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In the other thread someone complained that there's discussion about 4 books at once, so here's a new one.

https://www.qualitychess.co.uk/products/1/351/playing_the_najdorf_by_david_vigor...

Excerpt: https://www.qualitychess.co.uk/ebooks/PlayingtheNajdorf-excerpt.pdf

Recommends an ..e5 approach where applicable
The old 7..Be7 against 6.Bg5, avoiding the PP waters
Doesn't cover the Anti-Sicilians, sadly

Excerpt looks so good that I am hugely tempted to start playing the Najdorf Smiley

Release date is Dec 11, but it appears to already be available on Forward Chess?!
Did someone buy it there, and can say a word or two?
  
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