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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian (Read 997 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #14 - 12/21/19 at 10:01:39
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 12/21/19 at 00:04:56:
So after here:



safest for Black would be to transpose to the Awerbach with ...d6/...e5, or is 3...c5 just as risky (or as safe) as the Awerbach.

Obviously the purpose of all of this is for Black to avoid playing the KID.


I think 3...c5 is not as risky if one follows up with the Late Benoni or Delayed Benoni. (Of course we're not talking about the Nimzo-Indian or QGD here.)  The Awerbach variation is fairly safe after 3...d6 4.e4 e5, if one has studied it.  I think all of the other fourth moves for Black are now known to be inferior (except of course 4...Nf6).  I'd love to be proven wrong about this however.
  
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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #13 - 12/21/19 at 03:00:41
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Glenn Snow wrote on 12/20/19 at 11:36:39:
Lauri Torni wrote on 12/20/19 at 09:53:03:
IM_Serious wrote on 12/18/19 at 04:16:36:
1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 f5

Apparently, this is also called Dzindzi Indian.



Is there a reason for white to play 3.Nc3 instead of 3.e4?


I doubt if there's any really good theoretical reason but I suppose there is the off chance that it doesn't match the rest of one's repertoire.  I once argued that 3.e4 could be met by 3...Nc6.  There it's slightly advantageous for Black not to have moved the d-pawn.

This has probably been mentioned but I've seen 1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5 4.d6 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 f5 6.e4 e5 (often played but maybe it's not the best try) 7.Nh3 recommended for White.


iirc 3 e4 Nc6!? was recommended by Bologan in a DVD on the Pirc-Modern. It looks like a good compliment to the Dzindzi-Indian to me.
  
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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #12 - 12/21/19 at 00:04:56
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So after here:



safest for Black would be to transpose to the Awerbach with ...d6/...e5, or is 3...c5 just as risky (or as safe) as the Awerbach.

Obviously the purpose of all of this is for Black to avoid playing the KID.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #11 - 12/20/19 at 23:48:05
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 12/20/19 at 22:47:09:
So if one had to, for example, play the Modern as Black in a norm tournament, like the Sants Open in Barcelona, would it be risky to play the Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian against a IM or GM, if he were trying to get a norm.


It would definitely be at least a little risky.  IM Vigorito did a short repertoire for Black with the opening.  If I remember correctly he thought it was a good surprise weapon while acknowledging the risk involved.
  
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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #10 - 12/20/19 at 22:47:09
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So if one had to, for example, play the Modern as Black in a norm tournament, like the Sants Open in Barcelona, would it be risky to play the Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian against a IM or GM, if he were trying to get a norm.
  
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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #9 - 12/20/19 at 19:44:25
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TD wrote on 12/20/19 at 15:37:09:
Glenn Snow wrote on 12/20/19 at 11:36:39:
This has probably been mentioned but I've seen 1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5 4.d6 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 f5 6.e4 e5 (often played but maybe it's not the best try) 7.Nh3 recommended for White.

I don't think this is correct. My db has 0 games with 6...e5 and 7.exf5 seems winning...


Yes indeed, I left out some moves.  6...fxe4 7.f3 e5 8.Nh3 is correct.  I've played this numerous times in speed chess and surprisingly 8.fxe4? is the most common response.
  
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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #8 - 12/20/19 at 15:37:09
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Glenn Snow wrote on 12/20/19 at 11:36:39:
This has probably been mentioned but I've seen 1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5 4.d6 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 f5 6.e4 e5 (often played but maybe it's not the best try) 7.Nh3 recommended for White.

I don't think this is correct. My db has 0 games with 6...e5 and 7.exf5 seems winning...
  
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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #7 - 12/20/19 at 11:36:39
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Lauri Torni wrote on 12/20/19 at 09:53:03:
IM_Serious wrote on 12/18/19 at 04:16:36:
1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 f5

Apparently, this is also called Dzindzi Indian.



Is there a reason for white to play 3.Nc3 instead of 3.e4?


I doubt if there's any really good theoretical reason but I suppose there is the off chance that it doesn't match the rest of one's repertoire.  I once argued that 3.e4 could be met by 3...Nc6.  There it's slightly advantageous for Black not to have moved the d-pawn.

This has probably been mentioned but I've seen 1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5 4.d6 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 f5 6.e4 e5 (often played but maybe it's not the best try) 7.Nh3 recommended for White.
  
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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #6 - 12/20/19 at 09:53:03
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IM_Serious wrote on 12/18/19 at 04:16:36:
1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 f5

Apparently, this is also called Dzindzi Indian.



Is there a reason for white to play 3.Nc3 instead of 3.e4?
  

1.Nf3! -  beat your opponent by killing his zest for life.
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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #5 - 12/19/19 at 10:56:02
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LC0 doesn't seem to hate it? Around 60% which is hardly unusual.

It does have a few quite interesting ideas mind you - it likes going 6 h4 Nf6 7 h5 Rg8 8 hg hg and then 9 e4!? the point after 9.. Nxe4 being 10 f3 and then Nf6 11 d6!? or 10.. Nd6 11 Rh7.

Or 9 ..fe 10 d6 ed 11 Bg5.

It actually thinks that black probably shouldn't take on e4 on move 9. I can't imagine this being too off putting for people wanting to play this.

It also seems to think that white does OK just developing after 6 e4 fe. Say 7 Ne2 d6 8 Ng3 Nf6 9 Bf4 Nbd7 10 Be2 Ne5 11 o-o Bf5 and only then 12 f3. 

Seems a very rare approach at the moment, might be a slight practical annoyance for black.
  
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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #4 - 12/18/19 at 13:01:12
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RoleyPoley wrote on 12/18/19 at 11:11:02:
wasnt there a book called something like Carpathian warrior which covered this line, and the Charlie Storey DVDs/ books also? or are they different to this?

Carpathian Warrior 2 by Lalic & Okhotnik. Henley has 3 DVD's on the Dzindzi-Indian: https://www.debestezet.nl/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1866
Storey has a few games in The Sniper.
  
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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #3 - 12/18/19 at 11:11:02
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wasnt there a book called something like Carpathian warrior which covered this line, and the Charlie Storey DVDs/ books also? or are they different to this?
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #2 - 12/18/19 at 04:16:36
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1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 f5

Apparently, this is also called Dzindzi Indian.

GM Henley published some books in 2011:

Vol 1

Vol 2

  
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Re: Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
Reply #1 - 12/18/19 at 02:39:54
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Do we really need a fourth thread on this opening? (1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 f5.) I don't think the theory is advancing at all. Also, two of the below threads already point out that the Dzindzi Indian is a different opening. (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 a6.)

The Dunworth & Beefeater thread starts with exactly the same question.
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1144764756

In the Play the Chaos attack !! thread fluffy says white should avoid 3.Nc3, and I trust him.
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1213953157/all

The What do people here think of the Dzindzi Indian thread is the most recent one; it has some posts from 2015.
https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1243291975/all
  
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Current state of Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian
12/18/19 at 00:23:53
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This is the starting position of the Dzindzishchashchwili-Indian. I do not think that there have been a famous book, besides some electronic products on this opening. How is this entire opening complex holding up now.

I usually play this via the Modern and to avoid entering the KID as Black. However, Leela gives very high evaluations for White when I analyse this opening.
  
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