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Normal Topic 9...Ne8 against 5.Re1 (Read 1175 times)
mn
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Re: 9...Ne8 against 5.Re1
Reply #7 - 05/16/20 at 21:38:28
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If you don't mind being very slightly worse, I think 7...Nf5 is worth considering.
  
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halbstark
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Re: 9...Ne8 against 5.Re1
Reply #6 - 05/16/20 at 10:30:00
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I cannot say much about 9...b6. I just had a quick look at games with this move and to me it doesn´t seem particularly good, but with deeper analysis you might make it work.

9...Ne8 is the move I prefer. It gives White options like 10.c4 or 10.d5, but I am sure black is fine and the change in the pawn structure makes it much more appealing for black to play for the win (at least on my level).

I never really understood, why 9...Bf6 is played as the main line. I mean, this move seems to hold on 2700-level and this is a pretty good argument, but other than that I always feel like the bishop is somewhat misplaced on f6. Especially if White goes for the most boring of options with c2-c3 I would rather have the bishop on d6 (after d7-d5). With the bishop on f6 there seems to be absolutely no other plan for black than exchanging all pieces via f5 and e8 and make a draw. 9...Ne8 at least keeps the game alive.
  
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IsaVulpes
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Re: 9...Ne8 against 5.Re1
Reply #5 - 05/16/20 at 06:29:10
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Sort-of hijacking this thread, but on a similar quest (of finding a not-entirely-bore line against 5.Re1) I stumbled on 9..b6!?

It's the third most popular move in the position, but FAR behind (eg the Lichess Master DB has 860x Bf6, 140x Ne8, and 14x b6). I've not quite been able to find out why, and it seems to lead to /slightly/ more interesting positions.

It's still not a miracle solution; if White wants to kill off the game he can, but at least he'll be largely on his own, and the positions are a bit different.

The 'practical value' is kinda-sorta corroborated by the Lichess Online DB: In 2200+ No Bullet (which so far has given me a relatively good insight into ~2100 level OTB play), 9..Bf6 scores 45% for Black, 9..Ne8 climbs up to 50%, and 9..b6 crashes through with an astonishing 65%.
The sample size is extremely low (33 games, compared to 1750 with 9..Bf6), and there might be a certain bias in it (if eg it's a line that 2700s play when they want to avoid a draw against a 2400, it will "automatically" get insanely good stats, but doesn't tell you what to expect when fighting someone of your rating), but it's still a fun thing to take note of.

Here are two sample "games" (just letting Lc0 run for a bit, with some amount of guidance):
- https://lichess.org/oWKTHAUD#0 "Ambitious" White. Leela initially likes this a good bit for White, claiming +0.5 to +0.6, but when following the line, this sort of dissipates, until the final position is given a flat 0
- https://lichess.org/pGzUB7fi White maintaining his idea of "killing off the game", just playing as solid as possible. Naturally we can't miracle conjure something big here, but some ideas remain.

Overall, this looks like a decent option for Black to me.
« Last Edit: 05/16/20 at 11:38:07 by IsaVulpes »  
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Keano
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Re: 9...Ne8 against 5.Re1
Reply #4 - 02/26/20 at 12:12:20
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Ah yes. ..sorry you are right. ...Bf6 and then ...Re8 seems to be how they usually do it
  
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stockhausen
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Re: 9...Ne8 against 5.Re1
Reply #3 - 02/19/20 at 21:40:36
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Keano wrote on 02/19/20 at 16:44:44:
Isn't that the standard way Black plays? Not sure it is very unbalanced. Solid yes.

Black usually plays Bf6 right? I don't follow top level games too closely so I can't say for sure.
  
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Keano
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Re: 9...Ne8 against 5.Re1
Reply #2 - 02/19/20 at 16:44:44
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Isn't that the standard way Black plays? Not sure it is very unbalanced. Solid yes.
  
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Re: 9...Ne8 against 5.Re1
Reply #1 - 12/20/19 at 18:48:54
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Of course White can play some super-solid c3 stuff ...
  
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stockhausen
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9...Ne8 against 5.Re1
12/20/19 at 18:01:41
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This line, which has been played a number of times by Aronian, seems to lead to more unbalanced positions than usually in the 5.Re1 Anti-Berlin. Is this a good way for black to play for a win?
I mean the line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.O-O Nxe4 5.Re1 Nd6 6.Nxe5 Be7 7.Bf1 Nxe5 8.Rxe5 O-O 9.d4 Ne8.
  
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