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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kramnik Sicilian (Read 4361 times)
ErictheRed
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #39 - 01/28/20 at 21:37:59
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All pardoned, cheers!  Back to chess.
  
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Jupp53
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #38 - 01/28/20 at 19:00:20
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ErictheRed wrote on 01/28/20 at 14:48:08:
I don't think that I changed any of my quoted text.  Every single post of mine that you (Jupp53) quoted still exists, verbatim.  The post that you called offensive, reply #19, has not been edited at all.  Therefore I don't understand the intention behind saying "Looking at the whole topic I see ErictheRed has edited his posts here and you can see this via my quotes" which implies that I wrote something offensive and later changed it, which I did not do.


You're right with this and I beg your pardon for my error about editing. One reason was reading this topic on another device not showing the diagrams, a second one my emotional state. So I was completely wrong about editing.

The other points: I'm not that important. It's your style and I accept what you wrote about it. Being sometimes too thin-skinned I hope to be more aware of this in the future. This is my mess.

What will make me angry if someone tells me what my intentions "are" without asking and contradictory to what I said.  Angry I will not change here. This happens again and lately in another topic elsewhere. I came to the conclusion asking in future about a course in mind-reading from the respective persons.  Grin

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ErictheRed
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #37 - 01/28/20 at 14:48:08
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I edit my posts only for grammar or clarity, or to add additional content that I think of later.  If you look at my posts around the forum, I would guess that most have been edited (including this one), especially because I often post from my phone first.

I don't think that I changed any of my quoted text.  Every single post of mine that you (Jupp53) quoted still exists, verbatim.  The post that you called offensive, reply #19, has not been edited at all.  Therefore I don't understand the intention behind saying "Looking at the whole topic I see ErictheRed has edited his posts here and you can see this via my quotes" which implies that I wrote something offensive and later changed it, which I did not do.

Of course, a person could press the quote button and then type any text that they want inside of the HTML tags, so a quoted post is no record of accuracy anyway. 

I genuinely don't understand what "As he did delete his chess advice with this ad personam sine necessitas I don't know if he got what he did" refers to.

Lastly, I have reminded other people in other threads that they are playing a game called chess and not a game called The French Defense or The Dragon or The Saemisch,  as I think that it helps to remember that we cannot always play our standard moves and expect good results.  Sometimes we have to put the knight on f3 or play ...e7-e5.  Sometimes we need to go back to basics and develop, get castled, fight for the center, etc.  Those posts in other threads didn't seem to cause offense. 
« Last Edit: 01/28/20 at 16:07:05 by ErictheRed »  
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Jupp53
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #36 - 01/28/20 at 08:24:54
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@Stigma @anordinarychessplayer

Looking at the whole topic I see ErictheRed has edited his posts here and you can see this via my quotes.

The offense was in his view as being personal superior and telling me, what were my intentions, that im not willing to judge myself positions to search for the best move. that i have to become a chess player not a Kan player.

Hinted to this attitude after his first post he gave this evidence clearly. I'm not amused about this. But this attitude is not my problem. He has to live with it. As he did delete his chess advice with this ad personam sine necessitas I don't know if he got what he did. That's why I write this.

All this is nothing to be happy for the readers too. But shit happens in communities and ErictheRed is according to my observations a constructive member in this forum, giving far more concrete lines than I do.

May this be my last ad personam post here, may everybody (explicitly myself included) reflect the own behavior to add to a good user experience of the forum, may ErictheRed continue giving input for people asking.

Pardon for the personal remarks. Back to content, if possible. And if the moderator wants to delete this post after one or two days I agree.
  

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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #35 - 01/28/20 at 03:22:33
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Stigma wrote on 01/28/20 at 01:48:10:
Maybe some cultural difference was at play here. Yes, ErictheRed was direct, but I don't see anything really offensive in his posts.

I agree with this.

Also, Jupp53 seems to be one who thinks more and posts less. EricTheRed interpreted this as ignoring the advice, when in fact Jupp53 was properly still evaluating the advice. Or at least that was my take on it.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #34 - 01/28/20 at 01:48:10
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Jupp53 wrote on 01/27/20 at 19:30:59:
ErictheRed wrote on 01/27/20 at 16:46:28:
... , but perhaps I'm wrong.


Not "perhaps", 100%. It is only sad. And as you don't try to get it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzvDofigTKQ

Maybe some cultural difference was at play here. Yes, ErictheRed was direct, but I don't see anything really offensive in his posts.

He does have some good points: Sometimes it's more important to play the best moves than reaching one's intended/favorite setup (the Kan in this case), and even if the knight goes to c6 after 3.c4 it usually doesn't lead to a direct transposition to the Taimanov anyway.
  

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Jupp53
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #33 - 01/28/20 at 01:15:03
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This game shows some play for black in the structure with f3 - Rac1 - b4

[Event "Saint Louis Showdown Rapid 2"]
[Site "Saint Louis"]
[Date "2015.11.14"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Negi, Parimarjan"]
[Black "Hou, Yifan"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A31"]
[WhiteElo "2664"]
[BlackElo "2683"]
[PlyCount "124"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 a6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 Qc7 5. Be2 b6 6. d4 cxd4 7. Nxd4 Bb7 8. O-O Nf6 9. f3 d6 10. Be3 Be7 11. Qd2 O-O 12. Rac1 Nbd7 13. Rfd1 Rac8 14. b4 Qb8 15.a3 Rfe8 16. Nb3 Bc6 17. Kh1 h6 18.Bf1 Ne5 19. Qf2 Bd7 20. Nb1 Ba4 21. N1d2 b5 22. c5 dxc5 23. Bxc5 Bxc5 24. Rxc5 Nfd7 25.Rxc8 Rxc8 26. Qd4 Nb6 27. Rc1 Rd8 28. Qc3 Qd6 29. Qc5 Bxb3 30. Nxb3 Nbc4 31. Qxd6 Rxd6  32. a4 bxa4 33. Nc5 Nb2 34. Ra1 a3 35. Bxa6 a2 36. Kg1 Rd1+ 37. Rxd1 Nxd1 38. Nb3 Kf8 39. Kf1 Ne3+ 40. Ke2 Nc2 41. Kd2 Nxb4 42. Be2 Nec6 43. Kc3 Ke7  44. Kxc2 Nd4+ 45. Kb2 Nxb3 46.Kxa2 Nc1+ 47. Kb2 Nxe2) 44. Bb5 Kd6 45. Kb2 g5 46. g3 Ne5 47. Be2 Ned3+ 48. Kc3 Nc1 49. Na1 Nxe2+ 50. Kxb4 Nd4 51. f4 gxf4 52. gxf4 Ne2 53. f5 e5 54. Ka3 Nc3 55. Nc2 Ke7 56. Kb2 Nxe4 57. Ne3 Kf6 58. Ng4+ Kxf5 59. Nxh6+ Ke6 60. Kxa2 f5 61. Kb2 Kf6 62. Kc2 Nd6 0-1

Before judging this  there is some analysis necessary for me.

Ideas after f4 instead of f3 will probably be in the dbs.
  

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Jupp53
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #32 - 01/27/20 at 19:30:59
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ErictheRed wrote on 01/27/20 at 16:46:28:
... , but perhaps I'm wrong.


Not "perhaps", 100%. It is only sad. And as you don't try to get it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzvDofigTKQ

Anyway thanks to the lines and hints to the hedgehood ideas to everybody.
  

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mn
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #31 - 01/27/20 at 18:42:45
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What if we say that after 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 e6 3 c4 Nc6 4 d4 cxd4 5 Nxd4 Nf6 6 Nc3 Bb4 you're playing a not terribly popular line of the English Opening (1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 Nc3 Nc6 4 d4 cxd4 5 Nxd4 e6 6 e4 Bb4). Does that make it more appealing? In general, I agree with Eric, without getting into whether or not he came across as offensive. Against the Maroczy Bind, replacing ...a6 with ...Nc6 seems like a good trade-off to me.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #30 - 01/27/20 at 16:46:28
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Jupp53 wrote on 01/26/20 at 23:25:09:
ErictheRed wrote on 01/24/20 at 21:50:18:
You do seem to be ignoring some good advice that you've already received, though.  You also seem intent on being s "Kan player," thinking that you must strive to play the Kan and only the Kan whenever possible.


You are offensive.

Neither do I ignore the advice here nor do I think of myself as a Kan player...



Well, in your own words,

Jupp53 wrote on 01/06/20 at 20:20:49:
Maybe - the main problem: With 3... Nc6 I'm move ordered out of the Kan. This means I have to learn another Sicilian.


You also seem to have ignored some good points about 3...Nc6 not necessarily leading to a Taimanov or about possible O'Kelly transpositions, etc., but perhaps I'm wrong.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #29 - 01/27/20 at 16:11:30
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Thanks MNb, I don't have Attacking the Flexible Sicilian but those lines look very good as well.
  
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MNb
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #28 - 01/27/20 at 06:33:00
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/27/20 at 01:01:14:
To find 2500-players on the black side, look at 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 a6 4. Nc3 Qc7 5.Be2 Nf6 6.O-O Be7 7.d4 cxd4 8.Nxd4 d6 9.Be3 O-O 10.f3.

Unfortunately you guys seem to forget to take a look at Attacking the Flexible Sicilian, which recommends 9.f4 Nbd7 10.Qd3 O-O 11.g4.
8...b6 (iso 8...d6) 9.Qd3 d6 (Bb4 10.Bg5) 10.f4 Nbd7 11.b4 isn't a bed of roses either. The authors Kotronias and Semkov apply a healthy principle: attack when you can, squeeze when you cannot. It gives Black a very hard time.
  

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ErictheRed
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #27 - 01/27/20 at 04:19:25
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Again I don't think it's so simple, because in this move order White needn't play so passively.  Instead of 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 a6 4. Nc3 Qc7 5.Be2 Nf6 6.O-O Be7 7.d4 cxd4 8.Nxd4 d6 9.Be3 O-O 10.f3, White should play 10.Rc1! b6 11.f4!, which I believe is good for White.  11...Bb7 12.Bf3 Nbd7 13.g4!, etc. 

6.0-0 d6 7. d4 cxd4 8. Nxd4 b6 might be better, but here White may try 9.b4!? Bb7 10.Bb2 (I forget where I discovered this idea).  Also 9.f4 Bb7 10.f5 may be strong for White, or 10.Bf3 Nbd7 11.Re1!.

Black is playing with fire by delaying his development for so long. 



  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #26 - 01/27/20 at 01:01:14
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If you are willing to play the Hedgehog, rather than the more active ...Nb8-c6 and/or ...Bf8-b4 ideas, then many of your move-order problems vanish. Black has many ways to reach the Hedgehog. It might be a bit more accurate to defer ...d7-d6 until white threatens e4-e5, alternatively until black needs the d7-square for ...Nb8-d7. If white continues to avoid d2-d4, black might even be able to play ...d7-d5.

To find 2500-players on the black side, look at 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 a6 4. Nc3 Qc7 5.Be2 Nf6 6.O-O Be7 7.d4 cxd4 8.Nxd4 d6 9.Be3 O-O 10.f3.
  
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Jupp53
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Re: Kramnik Sicilian
Reply #25 - 01/27/20 at 00:07:47
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/25/20 at 04:09:03:
(B2) 6.O-O is subtler, now I believe 6...Nc6 is still best. After 7.d4 cxd4 8.Nxd4 it's true white has avoided (A) and (B1), but black is probably still okay, at least not worse off than in your intended Kan line. The database offers 13 (!) different moves for black. Most active is 8...Bb4 when the plausible 9.Nxc6 dxc6 looks very much like a typical Kan.


Thank you. 6.0-0 is indeed challenging. 6... d6 7. d4 cxd4 8. Nxd4 b6 9. Be3 Bb7 10. f3 Be7
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looks interesting, but I miss 2500+ players in this line. The Aronian - Papp game brought in from ErictheRed shows one problem of 6... Nc6.
  

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