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Normal Topic 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 (Read 992 times)
XChess1971
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3
Reply #6 - 01/29/20 at 11:34:21
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RoleyPoley wrote on 01/29/20 at 10:26:23:
XChess1971 wrote on 01/28/20 at 00:40:59:
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/27/20 at 23:04:07:
2...d5 must be the equalizing move. Other moves are transpositional, black might consider them if more winning chances are needed.

In the Lugovskoy - Timofeev game, 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 c5 3.d5 e5, Lugovskoy's 4.dxe6 looks unmotivated. The normal 4.e4 gives white good chances of an edge. There is also 4.Bd2!?, shades of a Carlsen - Aronian encounter which was discussed on this forum. Wink


We are not looking at 2.Bf4. We are looking at 2.Nc3. That's a different story. The Carlsen - Aronian game you are saying I guess is this one...



2...d5 is usually the recommended move against 2.Nc3 isnt it? As white is often thought to be preparing Bg5 and playing the Veresov.

White's tastes may now be changing as 3. Bf4 is becoming a popular choice. Sometimes we see white play the second and third moves in reverse order depending on what black plays.


Exactly! On 2.Bf4 c5 changes the whole structure especially if white answers with 3.d5 and black goes for 3...Qb6. That's the real reason why I believe until structure is defined you can't mix them up!
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3
Reply #5 - 01/29/20 at 10:26:23
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XChess1971 wrote on 01/28/20 at 00:40:59:
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/27/20 at 23:04:07:
2...d5 must be the equalizing move. Other moves are transpositional, black might consider them if more winning chances are needed.

In the Lugovskoy - Timofeev game, 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 c5 3.d5 e5, Lugovskoy's 4.dxe6 looks unmotivated. The normal 4.e4 gives white good chances of an edge. There is also 4.Bd2!?, shades of a Carlsen - Aronian encounter which was discussed on this forum. Wink


We are not looking at 2.Bf4. We are looking at 2.Nc3. That's a different story. The Carlsen - Aronian game you are saying I guess is this one...



2...d5 is usually the recommended move against 2.Nc3 isnt it? As white is often thought to be preparing Bg5 and playing the Veresov.

White's tastes may now be changing as 3. Bf4 is becoming a popular choice. Sometimes we see white play the second and third moves in reverse order depending on what black plays.
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3
Reply #4 - 01/28/20 at 00:40:59
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/27/20 at 23:04:07:
2...d5 must be the equalizing move. Other moves are transpositional, black might consider them if more winning chances are needed.

In the Lugovskoy - Timofeev game, 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 c5 3.d5 e5, Lugovskoy's 4.dxe6 looks unmotivated. The normal 4.e4 gives white good chances of an edge. There is also 4.Bd2!?, shades of a Carlsen - Aronian encounter which was discussed on this forum. Wink


We are not looking at 2.Bf4. We are looking at 2.Nc3. That's a different story. The Carlsen - Aronian game you are saying I guess is this one...

[Event "Your Next Move (Blitz)"]
[Site "Leuven BEL"]
[Date "2017.07.01"]
[EventDate "2017.06.28"]
[Round "6"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Magnus Carlsen"]
[Black "Levon Aronian"]
[ECO "A45"]
[WhiteElo "2832"]
[BlackElo "2793"]
[PlyCount "119"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 c5 3. d5 d6 4. Nc3 e5 5. Bd2 Be7 6. e4 O-O
7. Be2 Nbd7 8. Nf3 Ne8 9. a4 g6 10. Bh6 Ng7 11. Nd2 Kh8 12. h4
Nf6 13. h5 Nfxh5 14. Bxh5 Nxh5 15. Bxf8 Qxf8 16. g3 Nf6
17. Qe2 Kg7 18. Nc4 b6 19. a5 Ba6 20. axb6 axb6 21. O-O h5
22. Rxa6 Rxa6 23. Nxd6 Ra8 24. Nc4 Qb8 25. Rd1 b5 26. d6 bxc4
27. dxe7 Qc7 28. Qxc4 Qxe7 29. Nd5 Nxd5 30. Rxd5 Qf6 31. Qc3
h4 32. Qxe5 hxg3 33. fxg3 Ra2 34. Qxf6+ Kxf6 35. Rxc5 Rxb2
36. Kf2 Ke6 37. Ke3 f5 38. Kd4 fxe4 39. Kxe4 Rb4+ 40. c4 Rb3
41. g4 Rg3 42. Rc6+ Kf7 43. Kf4 Ra3 44. Kg5 Ra5+ 45. c5 Ra4
46. Rf6+ Ke7 47. Rxg6 Rc4 48. Rc6 Kd7 49. Rd6+ Ke7 50. Rd5 Ke6
51. Rf5 Ke7 52. Kh4 Ke6 53. Kh5 Rd4 54. Rf1 Rd5+ 55. g5 Rxc5
56. Kh6 Rc2 57. g6 Rh2+ 58. Kg7 Rg2 59. Kh7 Rh2+ 60. Kg8 1-0

Here it is played 5.Bd2. It looks like a waste of time. Still in the line I mentioned probably more logic is to go for 4.e4.

Other options might be on move 3...d6 as I believe it was mentioned previously here as well.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3
Reply #3 - 01/27/20 at 23:04:07
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2...d5 must be the equalizing move. Other moves are transpositional, black might consider them if more winning chances are needed.

In the Lugovskoy - Timofeev game, 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 c5 3.d5 e5, Lugovskoy's 4.dxe6 looks unmotivated. The normal 4.e4 gives white good chances of an edge. There is also 4.Bd2!?, shades of a Carlsen - Aronian encounter which was discussed on this forum. Wink
  
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XChess1971
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3
Reply #2 - 01/27/20 at 19:07:51
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kylemeister wrote on 01/27/20 at 16:47:32:
XChess1971 wrote on 01/27/20 at 11:20:26:
Also I found that instead of 3...Qa5 black can play 3...e5 transposing into a Czech Benoni.

That sort of thing is actually an Old Benoni (in the Czech White plays c4).


Thanks for the clarification. I am not a 1.d4 c5 player in any style. I know some possible transpositions especially from Pirc. So I am not too familiar with those names. But I have seen lately some tendency from some people to play 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3. I have always had in my repertoire 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5. And I have been trying to see if that 2.Nc3 can be punished due to lack of white central pawns. But always trying to keep it on KID territory or Benoni structure.
Here an example...

  

TImofeev_Benoni.pgn ( 0 KB | 30 Downloads )
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3
Reply #1 - 01/27/20 at 16:47:32
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XChess1971 wrote on 01/27/20 at 11:20:26:
Also I found that instead of 3...Qa5 black can play 3...e5 transposing into a Czech Benoni.

That sort of thing is actually an Old Benoni (in the Czech White plays c4).
  
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XChess1971
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1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3
01/27/20 at 11:20:26
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I have been looking at this lately, And I am not to worried about transposing to a 2..d5 3.Bg5. Also people play 3.Bf4. Those two lines don't seem to bother me. But trying not to play 2...d5 and keeping it into the KID territory with 2...g6 I was played 3.Bf4. The idea is to play 4.Qd2, castle long and attack the kingside. I have tried 2...c5 after which some people played 3.Bg5. I do not think it is great. But deepening a little I found in some other website that 3.d5 Qa5 4.Bd2! b5 5.e4 b4 6.e5 bxc3 7.Bxc3 will be a better position for white. Also I found that instead of 3...Qa5 black can play 3...e5 transposing into a Czech Benoni. I guess the real move order would be 1.d4 c5 2.d5 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5. Also it could be considered 3...g6 and 3...d6. The point is  that with the pawn on c5 we keep control of d4. And also we keep the option of playing ...g6 under different conditions.
Others might like closing it all with 3...e5 and doing a lot of maneuvering.
Any experiences with this?????
  
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