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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The line that killed the Slav (Read 6772 times)
IsaVulpes
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #21 - 03/20/20 at 06:03:51
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trw wrote on 03/20/20 at 05:39:46:
Fine dumpster fire preparation worthy of a 1200

Ok, I'm out of this
  
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trw
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #20 - 03/20/20 at 05:39:46
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IsaVulpes wrote on 03/20/20 at 05:28:09:
trw wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:50:53:
why Fabi sought out such blighted territory with no preparation.

Is this a joke? He plays a novelty directly after the topical 9.Kf2, blitzes out moves until turn 16/17 -in the process of which he goes up an hour on the clock-, and you talk of "no preparation"?



Fine dumpster fire preparation worthy of a 1200 in my book, as a correspondence player, is the same as no preparation. A 2800 should know better than to play utter crap.
  
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #19 - 03/20/20 at 05:28:09
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trw wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:50:53:
why Fabi sought out such blighted territory with no preparation.

Is this a joke? He plays a novelty directly after the topical 9.Kf2, blitzes out moves until turn 16/17 -in the process of which he goes up an hour on the clock-, and you talk of "no preparation"?
  
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trw
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #18 - 03/19/20 at 21:32:34
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Pantu wrote on 03/19/20 at 21:08:31:
You mean 9.Kf2? I was aware of it at least from Giri-Vallejo, EICC 2010. Also playing it around then were Fressinet, Laznicka, Ding Liren, Bu Xiangzhi...but not really any amateur in 2011.

It was given by Kaufman in his 2012 repertoire book, where he mentions he played it against Shankland that year, losing, but I can't find that game.

I have an idea that from when New in Chess were reprinting old Botvinnik books, this was given as an idea in one of Botvinnik's old notebooks from match preparation, and then people started to run with it. But I could be very confused about this (it happens!).


Apparently you are right, it was 2009 TN from Fressinet. [Event "ROM-chT"]
[Site "Eforie Nord"]
[Date "2009.09.27"]
[Round "9"]
[White "Fressinet, Laurent"]
[Black "Solak, Dragan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D17"]
[WhiteElo "2658"]
[BlackElo "2583"]
[PlyCount "56"]
[EventDate "2009.09.19"]
[EventType "team"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "ROU"]
[SourceTitle "CBM 132 Extra"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2009.11.03"]
[SourceVersion "1"]
[SourceVersionDate "2009.11.03"]
[SourceQuality "1"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 dxc4 5. a4 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7. f3 Bb4 8. Nxc4
O-O 9. Kf2 b5 10. axb5 cxb5 11. Nxb5 Nc6 12. e3 Qb8 13. Nc3 e5 14. d5 Rd8 15.
Qa4 Ne7 16. d6 Bxd6 17. Nxd6 Rxd6 18. Be2 e4 19. Rf1 Bd7 20. Qa3 exf3 21. Bxf3
Ng4+ 22. Bxg4 Bxg4 23. Kg1 Nd5 24. Nxd5 Rxd5 25. e4 Rb5 26. Qe7 Qb6+ 27. Kh1
Be6 28. Ra3 Qb7 1/2-1/2

I seriously doubt Botvinnik created it although its origins really don't matter... it makes an entire opening unplayable unless resolved. And today's game shows even the world number 2 had zero inkling what to do against it.
  
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Pantu
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #17 - 03/19/20 at 21:08:31
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trw wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:49:04:
TD wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:42:10:
ErictheRed wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:31:10:
Years ago I played that line with 9.Bg5, which I don't think is that good.  I'll have to look into 9.Kf2 more closely now, thanks!

9.Kf2 was given a ! by Vigorito (I can't find the source).



Must have been on chesspublishing probably when Shankland lost against it (the first time 2016). The move was a novelty in 2011 correspondence game between amateur's thus he was probably unaware until 2016 when GMs started playing it after it ripped through the correspondence world. It wouldn't have existed when he published his book on the slav/semislav.



You mean 9.Kf2? I was aware of it at least from Giri-Vallejo, EICC 2010. Also playing it around then were Fressinet, Laznicka, Ding Liren, Bu Xiangzhi...but not really any amateur in 2011.

It was given by Kaufman in his 2012 repertoire book, where he mentions he played it against Shankland that year, losing, but I can't find that game.

I have an idea that from when New in Chess were reprinting old Botvinnik books, this was given as an idea in one of Botvinnik's old notebooks from match preparation, and then people started to run with it. But I could be very confused about this (it happens!).
  
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TD
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #16 - 03/19/20 at 19:37:30
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trw wrote on 03/19/20 at 19:19:40:
ErictheRed wrote on 03/19/20 at 19:15:27:
I would have thought that the old Alekhine/Euwe line with 12...Rd8 is still basically fine for Black, especially in correspondence.

Which line?

I guess 6.Ne5 Nbd7 7.Nxc4 Qc7 8.g3 e5 9.dxe5 Nxe5 10.Bf4 Nfd7 11.Bg2 f6 12.0-0 Rd8
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #15 - 03/19/20 at 19:31:29
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Moves please.

Never played Slav (except in Age of Empires) Grin
  
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TD
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #14 - 03/19/20 at 19:30:04
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TD
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #13 - 03/19/20 at 19:29:38
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kylemeister wrote on 03/19/20 at 18:44:59:
TD wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:42:10:
9.Kf2 was given a ! by Vigorito (I can't find the source, maybe ChessPublishing?).

https://www.chesspublishing.com/content/7/may19.htm#sla

Thank you!
  
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trw
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #12 - 03/19/20 at 19:19:40
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ErictheRed wrote on 03/19/20 at 19:15:27:
I would have thought that the old Alekhine/Euwe line with 12...Rd8 is still basically fine for Black, especially in correspondence.



Which line?
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #11 - 03/19/20 at 19:15:27
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I would have thought that the old Alekhine/Euwe line with 12...Rd8 is still basically fine for Black, especially in correspondence.
  
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #10 - 03/19/20 at 18:44:59
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TD wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:42:10:
9.Kf2 was given a ! by Vigorito (I can't find the source, maybe ChessPublishing?).

https://www.chesspublishing.com/content/7/may19.htm#sla
  
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TD
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #9 - 03/19/20 at 17:52:39
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trw wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:50:53:
TD wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:43:26:
trw wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:39:37:
TD wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:28:44:
trw wrote on 03/19/20 at 16:30:31:
This line made me give up the Slav

Really??



Yes, I have played 29 high level correspondence games and an additional 75 otb games with the slav. My only loss is in this line. I don't think the line can be repair so the entire opening was abandoned.

And 6...Nbd7 is also not good enough for correspondence chess?



I don't think the Morozevich line was ever fully sound and certainly in correspondence you are asking for a big ass beating. OTB as a surprise weapon once in a while, sure, but the question still remains if the opening can be saved after Kf2 and why Fabi sought out such blighted territory with no preparation.

And the Sokolov line 7...Nb6, advocated by Vigus in his outstanding book?
  
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TD
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #8 - 03/19/20 at 17:51:01
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trw wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:49:04:
TD wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:42:10:
ErictheRed wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:31:10:
Years ago I played that line with 9.Bg5, which I don't think is that good.  I'll have to look into 9.Kf2 more closely now, thanks!

9.Kf2 was given a ! by Vigorito (I can't find the source).
Must have been on chesspublishing

Yes, I thought so too.
  
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trw
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Re: The line that killed the Slav
Reply #7 - 03/19/20 at 17:50:53
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TD wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:43:26:
trw wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:39:37:
TD wrote on 03/19/20 at 17:28:44:
trw wrote on 03/19/20 at 16:30:31:
This line made me give up the Slav

Really??



Yes, I have played 29 high level correspondence games and an additional 75 otb games with the slav. My only loss is in this line. I don't think the line can be repair so the entire opening was abandoned.

And 6...Nbd7 is also not good enough for correspondence chess?



I don't think the Morozevich line was ever fully sound and certainly in correspondence you are asking for a big ass beating. OTB as a surprise weapon once in a while, sure, but the question still remains if the opening can be saved after Kf2 and why Fabi sought out such blighted territory with no preparation.
  
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