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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 2020 Candidates Interrupted (Read 1728 times)
Confused_by_Theory
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #16 - 10/16/20 at 22:59:35
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Candidates was about to be resumed but now postponed again. From www.fide.com:

Unfortunately, FIDE is forced to postpone the resumption of the Candidates Tournament until the spring of 2021.

The main reason for rescheduling the event is, of course, the concern related to the well-being of the players in the midst of the second wave of the pandemic. FIDE was ready to provide special travel arrangements and hospitality, including dedicated charter flights, and a high-class hotel being converted into an isolated environment. We have discussed all the details with each one of the players, and we'd like to thank them for their honest opinions, which helped us to weigh all pros and cons.

Till now, we have not received clearance for all players to participate in the tournament. Two players from one country are awaiting permission from their national authorities. While having full respect for the respective national procedures, FIDE will take further decisions about both the location and timing of the event based on our organization’s internal rules.

With the World Championship Match being scheduled for November-December 2021, we have some margin to adjust the reschedule of the Candidates Tournament. Holding the event in the spring of 2021 increases significantly the possibility of staging this very important event in a safe environment, minimizing the stress on the participants.

FIDE confirms that the second leg of the event will, in any case, take place in the spring of 2021. FIDE does not consider any changes to the cycle regulations. The venue and exact dates will be approved by FIDE two months before the resumption of the competition. The protocol for the event will be developed taking into account the practice of other top-level tournaments and the recommendations from local authorities.

We understand this announcement might be a disappointment for the chess community. However, it is FIDE’s responsibility to ensure not only the safety of the players and their general well-being during the tournament but also to provide the best possible conditions for the course of such a high-level event.

Finally, FIDE would like to express its gratitude to the host city of Yekaterinburg, which did a splendid job organizing the first leg of this competition under very challenging circumstances. Likewise, we are very thankful to the Georgian authorities, who generously stepped in to offer us an alternative in case of need. Finally, we would like to thank our sponsors for their patience and commitment.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #15 - 03/27/20 at 21:41:28
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Hi.

pirx wrote on 03/27/20 at 19:32:16:
"Playing the tournament under duress". It appears (based on a statement from one of the players quoted on chess24) that the players' contract specified than anyone withdrawing would be excluded from the next world championship cycle. To judge from the quality of the play (especially with regards to Ding and Caruana) the fairest solution would be to start a new tournament, replaying rounds 1 to 7. As to whether Radjabov is included in the new tournament …

If that is true then it's a pretty harsh contract condition. A serious fine or so would be more normal I suppose. It sort of makes sense though. Fide would not want any late withdrawals in case someone got cold feet because of the virus and if the tournament was halted they'd really want to avoid someone boycotting when the tournament would be about to start up again. Given how things have developed it's basically looking like a savvy prevision.

Confused_by_Theory wrote on 03/27/20 at 16:04:31:
My personal opinion about allowing Radjabov in the next candidates cycle (i.e. not this one even if all results are cleared) is that it would be a nice gesture. I will say though that if he truly is looking into a lawsuit then why would Fide ever do something like this?
https://www.chess.com/news/view/teimour-radjabov-interview-fide-candidates-chess
Why in today’s society do people even share things like this in the media...
trw wrote on 03/27/20 at 19:11:34:
What do you mean? That interview is basically the only logical thing I have seen yet anywhere regarding the candidates. At the very least, Radjabov has gained some fans for life.

That Radjabov is looking into suing Fide; which is seriously dumb to announce in the media. The interview itself is for reference.

Have a nice day.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #14 - 03/27/20 at 20:27:12
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Dink Heckler wrote on 03/27/20 at 08:03:29:
FIDE is like certain politicians; just when you think: surely now, they have reached the nadir, they can't possibly go any lower, somehow they always manage to limbo under the bar.

Well said! I can't imagine FIDE doing anything right here. I see them doing whatever will protect themselves from having to admit any mistakes. Won't Putin be weighing in on such a high-profile matter involving Russian prestige, sponsors, and revenue--all the more high-profile since it became the "last show on earth"? I think he will act solely to avoid embarassment.

Now, if all the players, together with Radjabov and, say, Aronian together got an external sponsor and held their own tournament, that would be a Russian Revolution.
  
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #13 - 03/27/20 at 19:32:16
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"Playing the tournament under duress". It appears (based on a statement from one of the players quoted on chess24) that the players' contract specified than anyone withdrawing would be excluded from the next world championship cycle. To judge from the quality of the play (especially with regards to Ding and Caruana) the fairest solution would be to start a new tournament, replaying rounds 1 to 7. As to whether Radjabov is included in the new tournament …
  
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trw
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #12 - 03/27/20 at 19:11:34
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 03/27/20 at 02:22:58:
I didn't see the interview. Do you think this is hindsight, or did he feel this way at the start? If the latter, why didn't he do something different? Like, follow Radjabov's lead. Radjabov was replaced, maybe they would have done the same to another qualifier, but at some point it would have been futile. In my view they were crazy to show up. The travel alone is dangerous, now they have to travel home when things are worse.


Wang Hao's been public since before the tournament. He stated he agreed with Radjabov, although obviously not enough to withdraw over it. It is a heinous thing FIDE has done to make players choose their health or their profession. Anyways, in every round, Wang Hao would make mention of how FIDE messed up, playing under these conditions is wrong. When they asked him in Round 1 what he thought of the conditions and how well they prepared against the virus, he said, "they had no preparation of any kind and that was obvious to the whole world that saw the Opening Ceremony." In round 2 when they asked him he didn't beat Giri, he said, "You try to concentrate when you aren't sure if you will be able to get home. When your loved ones under threat of a virus for nearly 2 months. When you are playing a tournament under duress." He's been vocal and it's been great although in some ways funny because he is very soft spoken even though he is using harsh and direct words.



Confused_by_Theory wrote on 03/27/20 at 16:04:31:
https://www.chess.com/news/view/teimour-radjabov-interview-fide-candidates-chess
Why in today’s society do people even share things like this in the media...


What do you mean? That interview is basically the only logical thing I have seen yet anywhere regarding the candidates. At the very least, Radjabov has gained some fans for life.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #11 - 03/27/20 at 16:04:31
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Hi.

It is difficult to miss that some of the players have expressed how the tournament should have been postponed. Both beforehand and during the tournament. That’s perfectly fine. I will say though that if the collective press didn’t at that point ask the players how they thought when they signed their contracts it has not done great.

trw wrote on 03/26/20 at 20:38:53:
I think they have two choices.

1) Restart the tournament with MVL replaced by Radjabov.
2) Restart the tournament with 10 players letting MVL remain and adding a wildcard to keep even numbers with Radjabov back in obviously.
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 03/27/20 at 02:22:58:
Actually, there is an infinite range of choices. Some of them FIDE won't like because of money, current and future. But a pandemic changes everything.
Choice three would be:
3) Play is resumed at later date with points from round 1-7 as they were

What players need to do to avoid this is basically to present an option, form opinion and seriously argue their case. This varies from comments and general expressions of dissatisfaction. If the option is that the whole tournament should be replayed then realistically the player would need to say so at some point (probably soon) and give a really good answer as to why any problems with the playing situation merits crossing over the results from seven rounds (in effect changing their previous contracts). It’s not likely to happen and Fide would not agree anyway unless seriously pressured.

Keano wrote on 03/26/20 at 21:14:30:
My own view is:

1) Tournament should never have been held

2) Any future solution must involve Radjabov, otherwise the tournament has no credibility.

My personal opinion about allowing Radjabov in the next candidates cycle (i.e. not this one even if all results are cleared) is that it would be a nice gesture. I will say though that if he truly is looking into a lawsuit then why would Fide ever do something like this?
https://www.chess.com/news/view/teimour-radjabov-interview-fide-candidates-chess
Why in today’s society do people even share things like this in the media...

I don’t see how Radjabov will ever get in the present cycle either. Maybe if there is some kind of grand deal. Any player who wants can quit the present cycle but gain qualification to the next (or some serious advantage). Then some spot could maybe open up. Provided people actually take this offer remaining player’s chances in a completely new tournament would presumably increase somewhat due to there being less players. The guys in the top of the present tournament might still not like it though. Also people might just say no and then it's the same as before but with more splits in the chess world, since many would doubtlessly not like the whole idea.

Maybe we should have a poll. How to continue the candidates? I can set it up if I get options Wink

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #10 - 03/27/20 at 08:03:29
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Every sporting event on earth was postponed or rescheduled except for the Candidates. And now this utterly predictable farce. Words fail me.

FIDE is like certain politicians; just when you think: surely now, they have reached the nadir, they can't possibly go any lower, somehow they always manage to limbo under the bar.
  

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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #9 - 03/27/20 at 02:22:58
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trw wrote on 03/26/20 at 20:38:53:
Wang Hao: ".... From the start, it shouldn't have been held. ..."

I didn't see the interview. Do you think this is hindsight, or did he feel this way at the start? If the latter, why didn't he do something different? Like, follow Radjabov's lead. Radjabov was replaced, maybe they would have done the same to another qualifier, but at some point it would have been futile. In my view they were crazy to show up. The travel alone is dangerous, now they have to travel home when things are worse.

trw wrote on 03/26/20 at 20:38:53:
I think they have two choices. ...

Actually, there is an infinite range of choices. Some of them FIDE won't like because of money, current and future. But a pandemic changes everything.

Twice now I've made the dark joke that Radjabov could still win. By which I mean, anything can happen, up to and including the complete decimation of all the other candidates. I don't think it's likely though. They are young, otherwise healthy, one hopes they would get good medical care. But if anybody ends up with a serious case of COVID-19, they won't be playing 2700-level chess later this year.

FIDE is culpable, but I'm focusing on the players because I'm a player. In a sense I'm preparing in my head for what I would do in one of these individual/collective take-it-or-leave-it decision scenarios. I don't know if I could be Radjabov, but once Radjabov made the first move I know what I would do.
  
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trw
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #8 - 03/26/20 at 23:13:58
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Keano wrote on 03/26/20 at 21:14:30:
My own view is:

1) Tournament should never have been held

2) Any future solution must involve Radjabov, otherwise the tournament has no credibility.



Totally agree.
  
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #7 - 03/26/20 at 21:14:30
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My own view is:

1) Tournament should never have been held

2) Any future solution must involve Radjabov, otherwise the tournament has no credibility.
  
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trw
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #6 - 03/26/20 at 20:38:53
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It's a disgrace... Here is Wang Hao, "I think it's like a joke. From the start, it shouldn't have been held. It shouldn't be started just to be postponed. Not like this, this is just a big mess. They could have known it would cause a lot of different problems. Of course, they cannot control everything. There were a lot of reasons to postpone. During the whole tournament, I felt I was distracted. I was worrying about flights, seeing bad news about China... Now if we enter China, we will be quarantined for two weeks. I could just have arrived from Tokyo to Beijing and quarantine at home, now I don't think that is possible."

Grischuk relayed a comment from Botvinnik earlier in the tournament, "Botvinnik was commenting on this, that if you make two players play while standing it’s completely unsure that the same one will win who would win while playing seated." https://streamable.cm/xoolv

And people are actually denying that this is effecting the players play?! Nepo said after his game with Wang he didn't feel well (see clip) and then goes to lose to MVL.
https://clips.twitch.tv/CogentMoistKathyJKanStyle

Do Fabi, Ding or even Giri remotely look like the players you expected to show up? What about Wang Hao... his round 2 game with Giri shows he was under stress that has nothing to do with chess... Come on people wake up. Wang Hao wasn't even ABLE TO GO HOME before the tournament started due to the virus. He has been dealing with this for way longer than the rest of the world.

And I could go on and on. Quoting players who are feeling ill, who wanted the rest days removed to make the tournament go quicker, who asked for postponements...

So now assuming everyone survives the pandemic - a big assumption at this point - what should FIDE do?

I think they have two choices.

1) Restart the tournament with MVL replaced by Radjabov.
2) Restart the tournament with 10 players letting MVL remain and adding a wildcard to keep even numbers with Radjabov back in obviously.

Or the corrupt as crappity smack option that FIDE will likely pursue. Keep the score as is knowing the candidates tournament is compromised and Radjabov was screwed. Giving at best Radjabov a consolation 2022 candidates spot to hope he doesn't sue the ever living crappity smack out of them.

The reality is that they will be delaying the World Championship match since the chess events won't be resume until the earliest OCTOBER and that is under a very optimistic timeline.  Yet here at the bottom, https://fide.com/news/463, "Q: And an important question about the match for the title of World Champion. Is the match also being postponed?

Arkady Dvorkovich: The match for the chess crown is due to take place at the end of the year. There is no question of changing dates."

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

So yeah, at this point, FIDE needs to take its head out of its crappity smacking ass... admit a giant mistake and that they've been totally irresponsible since the start. https://clips.twitch.tv/LazyCreativeEggnogCurseLit

Sure, it has been a nice distraction for us viewers since the start... but that's being selfish.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #5 - 03/26/20 at 13:49:31
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I also didn't exactly follow the reasoning about the players and why they have done good or bad in the tournament.

What I will say though is that oftentimes in chess there are situations where one or several players feel they have been wronged. To act on something like this generally you would first need a strong first hand indication from the player/-s themselves that they are upset (edit: and that they want action). Also you need to think about if the action you take to adress the problem produces side effects or further injustices. In this case anulling seven rounds is something of a side effect.

Have a nice day.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #4 - 03/26/20 at 13:37:46
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Hi.

It makes sense to postpone the tournament given the flights.

If enough participants say they'd rather have a complete replay of the tournament, possibly including a Radjabov, obviously Fide would have some things to discuss. To me however; this would seem morally dubious considering the players signed a contract with the eventuality of cancellation included. In other words they were made aware beyond doubt this situation could happen and still decided to participate. I'm not saying there isn't some chance players won't comment on the situation in the time from here until resumption but I doubt there will form a front against the tournament continuing.

How big or small a health hazard playing chess is, especially with precautions, seems to my mind not clear. I am therefore not majorly inclined to say Fide did right or wrong from a health standpoint. If anyone has any interesting studies or just anecdotes about virus spread in environments mimicking chess venues/clubs it is of continuing interest.

Have a nice day. Stay healthy Smiley

Edit: Spelling mistake
« Last Edit: 03/26/20 at 20:17:53 by Confused_by_Theory »  
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #3 - 03/26/20 at 13:35:31
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ReneDescartes wrote on 03/26/20 at 10:58:53:
Grischuk is a parent; Ding lives with his parents; Alekseenko is still a college student.  [..] In this environment, the players who have the fewest domestic ties--MVL Nepo, Wang, and Caruana--have all landed in the  top half of the standings.

This is not just extremely disrespectful to the players & their achievements (MVL isn't shared first because he is playing well, but just because he has to worry less..),
but also disingenuous at best (The "top half of the standings" is 6/8 players, as 3rd-6th is shared; Grischuk, whom you list as suffering from this, is part of this tie for 3rd; Giri is a parent as well and has the same points, but you conveniently don't mention him),
and might even be factually wrong (how much do you know about the private life of the players, to judge whether Caruana, MVL, Wang Hao & Nepomniachtchi have "fewer domestic ties" than eg Alekseenko?).

If the top 3 were Grischuk, Alekseenko & Nepomniachtchi, you would say "Obviously they are at the top! Unlike everyone else, they don't have to worry about how closing borders affect their ability to get home".

The situation is bad enough as-is, we don't need to make up fantasy storylines..
  
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Re: 2020 Candidates Interrupted
Reply #2 - 03/26/20 at 12:24:46
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Radjabov correctly made the unilateral, and therefore brave, decision not to play under the prevailing conditions. What should have happened next is one or more of the other candidates stepping up to say the same. Ideally all of them en masse. They are only human. Even grandmasters can be meek at the wrong time.

The future is uncertain. Radjabov still has a chance!   Sad
  
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