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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The Schallop Defence (Read 3249 times)
an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #15 - 01/23/21 at 13:43:22
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A little off topic:
Quote:
In a pure scientific sense, Black should rather play the equalizer 13..d5. But I always hated to play this move, when all I could achieve with it is to force a draw by simplification. Let's take this confession as a starting point for a small journey to the psychological meta-level of chess. For most players, including myself, tournament chess foremost is about scoring the maximum amount of points. It is not about playing the best move all the time, but the most efficient one, as a means to an end. Basically, you should always play the move, which hurts your opponent most. If for example, you play against a stronger opponent or against one who hates to go for a draw, use the threat of draw as a weapon! Play the second best move, the one armed with the draw weapon, and let him make a big concession in order to avoid the draw.
.. Wahls (2016.03.04) 4. The Beginning of a Love Affair http://matthias-wahls.com/200-2/

Well, here in one paragraph we have Wahls playing a second-best move to avoid a sterile draw, of which I conditionally approve; and then recommending to play directly for a draw as a "winning" strategy, of which I unconditionally disapprove. Boys and girls, don't play like that! It's not real chess. And if by chance you "win" with such tactics, don't imagine it makes you a good player. John Curdo once quipped, "Players like that shouldn't get white."
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #14 - 01/23/21 at 12:01:50
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3...Nf6 has to be fine for black just as 3...d5 and 3...Be7 are fine. But hardly a refutation, unless by refutation one means it will make white not want to play the King's Gambit any more. I once defeated a strong attacking master when he played the Bishop's Opening. I thought the King's Gambit would suit his style. I asked him why he doesn't play it, his reply was "What does white do against the Modern Defense?"

In his previous article (#8) after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxd5 Qxd5 7.d4 Be7 8.Bd3 g5 9.O-O Bg4 10.c3 c5 11.Re1 Wahls is concluding =+, not -/+. I would be happy with black there, but objectively 3...g5, 3...h6, and 3...d6(!) offer more chances to win.

I remembered Spassky once played 4.Nc3 but it may have been to get his opponent out of book. Pytel replied 4...d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Bc4 Be6. Wahls's 6...Nxc3 looks more natural, but probably white can hold a draw here as well.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1076856
  
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #13 - 01/22/21 at 16:54:05
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Jonathan Tait wrote on 01/12/21 at 11:56:41:
GM Matthias Wahls is now up to article 10 in his "The Refutation of the King’s Gambit" series


Thanks for the link.

I have to admit to being surprised by the recent elevated status of the Schallop defense. 3...Nf6 4e5 Nh5 looked reasonable and attractive for black in my eyes when I first saw it many decades ago. But I was swayed by expert opinion, which had a low opinion of the move and elevated other variations.

The main line was 3...g5, though it looked risky to me.

Fischer's "bust" 3...d6 often led to the Hanstein variation with c3 in my games. Theory has moved on for white, but black still seems OK.

3...Be2 looked odd, but had the backing of theory, if not of my games.

3...d5 always made sense as a way to de-fuse the king's gambit. Still, a possible 4/2 vs 2/4 pawn structure seems worthy of discussion in actual games.

FM Schulien and GM Marin swayed me with 2...Bc5. It looks more like "normal" chess and it served me well for many years. However, I think it's one of the few lines where white keeps the advantage.

3...Ne7 is routinely disparaged and routinely scores well for black.

The Falkbeer countergambit is, unfortunately, not good for black.

So back to the Schallop. Clearly it will take work on my part before I play it from either side of the board. Is this the refutation? Time will tell.
  
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #12 - 01/12/21 at 19:24:40
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Sorry, just quickly threw these lines together from vague memory without doublechecking anything, it was 7 am and I hadn't slept yet  Wink

I don't believe this to be "holding" fwiw -it is the King's Gambit after all-, but within the Schallop this felt to me like the most "White could step wrong" line (if alone because "common literature" appears to skip over it altogether).

It's also the only one that I ever felt uncomfortable against, playing it from the Black side. Everything else I've always been pretty happy against - where perhaps the objective advantage is smaller, but I never thought "ok I am in real danger of losing here"
  
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #11 - 01/12/21 at 18:31:33
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Quote:
1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e5 Nh5
5. Qe2 Be7 6. d4 O-O 7. g4 fxg3 8. Qg2 d6
9. hxg3 Bg4 10. Nc3 Nc6 11. Be3 dxe5 12. dxe5 Qd7


Unfortunately 12...Qd7 isn't the best move, although Black is still much better.  If Black plays 12...Bb4 it's -+.
  
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MNb
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #10 - 01/12/21 at 11:57:56
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This morning I checked. GM Wahls doesn't mention 12.dxe5 in the first line of IsaV. Compare Wahl's third article in the series.
  

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Jonathan Tait
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #9 - 01/12/21 at 11:56:41
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GM Matthias Wahls is now up to article 10 in his "The Refutation of the King’s Gambit" series Smiley

Available as a free download here:
http://matthias-wahls.com/79-the-refutation-of-the-kings-gambit-part-10/
  

blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #8 - 01/12/21 at 06:49:26
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Wasn't 5.Qe2 regarded as the best "practical try"?

I remember some lines like

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e5 Nh5
5. Qe2 Be7 6. d4 O-O 7. g4 fxg3 8. Qg2 Bh4
9. hxg3 Bxg3+ 10. Kd1 +-

or eg

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e5 Nh5
5. Qe2 Be7 6. d4 O-O 7. g4 fxg3 8. Qg2 d6
9. hxg3 Bg4 10. Nc3 Nc6 11. Be3 dxe5 12. dxe5 Qd7
13. Bd3 Rad8 14. O-O-O Qe6 15. Kb1

when Compi gives -1 but the position remains odd and all pieces are still on the board
There's a bunch of such, also with later/earlier Qg2s, I think

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e5 Nh5
5. Qe2 g6 6. d4 Bg7 7. g4 fxg3 8. Bg5 is another simple trap

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e5 Nh5
5. Qe2 g5 6. g4 fxg3 7. d4 is already given as White adv

it is also not mentioned at all in Gustafssons LifeTimeRepertoire @ Chessable, nor in Lokander's Open Games with Black, so there's some surprise value left over
  
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Paddy
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #7 - 01/12/21 at 01:04:03
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MNb wrote on 01/10/21 at 07:23:12:
Paddy wrote on 01/09/21 at 21:16:01:
[quote author=262E2E24170 link=1589129926/3#3 date=1589380593]Mostly my opponents play ...g5 lines and I get good results with Quaade-type lines.

As so often I think Black's attempts to squeeze all fun out of a gambit even more worriesome than attempts to refute it. Unfortunately 4.Nc3 Nc6 5.g3 d6 6.d4 Nc6 7.d5 Ne5 shows that White's 5th was not exactly optimal. If weaker opponents will play this against you in the near future you can blame me, Paddy.  Wink
GM Wahls wants to refute the KG and that's something I applaud, because it invariably means chances for the gambiteer. Here I have some suggestions. I haven't put much effort in them as 5...d6 above has discouraged me; plus I prefer to waste my time on the Classical Dutch today.

GM Wahls' first video gives 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e5 (indeed, if White's to play 4.Nc3 it's time to look for greener grass) Nh5 5.Be2 g5 6.O-O Ng7 7.d4 h6 and hang on, this looks like a Hanstein with the knight on g7 iso g8 plus some extra moves for White, some useful, some not (particularly e5 and Be2). So yes, 8.g3 d5 9.exd6 Bxd6 and now I suggest 10.Ne5 gxh2+ 11.Kh1 Be6 12.d5 Bxd6 13.dxe6 Bxe5 14.exf7+ Ke7. Before trying this in a corr. game I'd spend some hours analyzing this and then some more, but the practical chances are obvious with that centralized king.
Another idea is 8.Qe1 eg Be7 9.Bd3 d5 10.exd6 Qxd6 11.Nc3 but at the moment I don't see what to do after O-O.
Ninally I offer 8.Bc4 d5 9.exd6 Bxd6 10.Re1+.Be7 11.b3.
Possibly 8.Re1 Be7 from Buschbaum-Cossmann, corr 2014 is also worth looking at; not 9.Nc3 as in the game, but 9.c4 d6 10.cxd6 cxd6 11.Nc3 O-O 12.Nd5.though in such positions I always worry about White's queen's bishop and square e3.

While looking at GM Wahl's second article I found this game:

Corbat,P (2419) - Sueess,F (2245)
SUI/C26/F (SUI) ICCF, 20.10.2017

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e5 Nh5 5.Be2 g5 6.0-0 h6 7.d4 Ng7 8.g3 fxg3 9.Bc4 d5 10.exd6 Bxd6 11.Nxg5 hxg5 12.Bxf7+ Kf8 13.Bg6+ Kg8 14.Bf7+ Kf8 15.Bg6+ Kg8 16.Bf7+ ˝-˝

But yeah, 7...d6 is superior - and the moment I can't find anything better than 8.Re1 Be7 9.exd6 cxd6 10.Nc3. Getting the pawn back with Nxg5, opening the h-file, looks risky. Still at some point White hasn't any other option left. Finding the optimal circumstances is something I'll leave to someone else.

Thanks MNb!
Re the Quaade, I agree that 1 e4 e5 2 f4 exf4 3 Nf3 g5 4 Nc3 5.g3 d6 6.d4 Bg7 is one of the most challenging move orders and that 7 d5 Ne5 8 gxf4 gxf4 9 Bxf4 Bg4 10 Bb5+ Kf8! 11 Be2 doesn't seem promising for White, especially after 11..Nxf3+ 12 Bxf3 Bxc3+!? 13 bxc3 Qf6 when White's slight lead in develpment after 14 0-0 Qf4 15 Bxg4 seems inadequate compensation for his bad structure and exposed king.

A better practical try might be 7 Bb5!? a6! 8 Bxc6+ bxc6 and now the engine suggestion of 9 h3!?,  when, simply in search of practical chances I've looked at 9... h5 10. gxf4 g4 11. hxg4 hxg4 12. Rxh8 Bxh8 13. Ng5 f6 14. Nh3 Ne7 (14... gxh3 15. Qh5+) 15. Nf2 f5 16. Be3

and 9...g4 10. hxg4 fxg3 (10... Bxg4 11. Bxf4) 11. Bg5 Bf6 12. Bf4 Bxg4 13. Bxg3 h5 14. Qd3 h4 15. Bh2
Bxf3 16. Qxf3 Bxd4 17. e5 dxe5 18. Ne4 Bxb2 19. Rd1 Qe7 20. O-O Rh6 21. c3 Rg6+ 22. Kh1 Rd8 23. Rde1. Crazy stuff.

Thanks for the Schallop suggestions, which I'll certainly study.
  
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #6 - 01/10/21 at 20:18:39
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I always found this pretty hard to play in a practical game for black. Doesn't feel that intuitive and some move orders can be tricky.
  
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #5 - 01/10/21 at 07:23:12
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Paddy wrote on 01/09/21 at 21:16:01:
[quote author=262E2E24170 link=1589129926/3#3 date=1589380593]Mostly my opponents play ...g5 lines and I get good results with Quaade-type lines.

As so often I think Black's attempts to squeeze all fun out of a gambit even more worriesome than attempts to refute it. Unfortunately 4.Nc3 Nc6 5.g3 d6 6.d4 Nc6 7.d5 Ne5 shows that White's 5th was not exactly optimal. If weaker opponents will play this against you in the near future you can blame me, Paddy.  Wink
GM Wahls wants to refute the KG and that's something I applaud, because it invariably means chances for the gambiteer. Here I have some suggestions. I haven't put much effort in them as 5...d6 above has discouraged me; plus I prefer to waste my time on the Classical Dutch today.

GM Wahls' first video gives 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e5 (indeed, if White's to play 4.Nc3 it's time to look for greener grass) Nh5 5.Be2 g5 6.O-O Ng7 7.d4 h6 and hang on, this looks like a Hanstein with the knight on g7 iso g8 plus some extra moves for White, some useful, some not (particularly e5 and Be2). So yes, 8.g3 d5 9.exd6 Bxd6 and now I suggest 10.Ne5 gxh2+ 11.Kh1 Be6 12.d5 Bxd6 13.dxe6 Bxe5 14.exf7+ Ke7. Before trying this in a corr. game I'd spend some hours analyzing this and then some more, but the practical chances are obvious with that centralized king.
Another idea is 8.Qe1 eg Be7 9.Bd3 d5 10.exd6 Qxd6 11.Nc3 but at the moment I don't see what to do after O-O.
Ninally I offer 8.Bc4 d5 9.exd6 Bxd6 10.Re1+.Be7 11.b3.
Possibly 8.Re1 Be7 from Buschbaum-Cossmann, corr 2014 is also worth looking at; not 9.Nc3 as in the game, but 9.c4 d6 10.cxd6 cxd6 11.Nc3 O-O 12.Nd5.though in such positions I always worry about White's queen's bishop and square e3.

While looking at GM Wahl's second article I found this game:

Corbat,P (2419) - Sueess,F (2245)
SUI/C26/F (SUI) ICCF, 20.10.2017

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e5 Nh5 5.Be2 g5 6.0-0 h6 7.d4 Ng7 8.g3 fxg3 9.Bc4 d5 10.exd6 Bxd6 11.Nxg5 hxg5 12.Bxf7+ Kf8 13.Bg6+ Kg8 14.Bf7+ Kf8 15.Bg6+ Kg8 16.Bf7+ ˝-˝

But yeah, 7...d6 is superior - and the moment I can't find anything better than 8.Re1 Be7 9.exd6 cxd6 10.Nc3. Getting the pawn back with Nxg5, opening the h-file, looks risky. Still at some point White hasn't any other option left. Finding the optimal circumstances is something I'll leave to someone else.


  

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Paddy
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #4 - 01/09/21 at 21:16:01
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Patzel wrote on 05/13/20 at 14:36:33:
5.d4 is better than 5.Be2 and leads to entertaining positions.
The other idea is to play 4.Nc3 instead of 4.e5, which most likely transposes to the Modern Defence after 4...d5.

I published a video course on the King´s Gambit in German last month. Even if you don´t understand the videos, you´ll find a lot of new analysis, if you are a King´s Gambit fan   Smiley
Just take a look at chessemy!


Hi Patrick,
I like your video course very much and I win a lot of games with your lines in blitz, but it still seems to me that White needs some improvements against 3...Nf6.

I notice that GM Matthias Wahls has been analysing this extensively from the black viewpoint at his website.

I hope you or other readers can come up with some idea that equalises for White but also offers practical chances. I confess that at the moment I feel uncomfortable against 3...Nf6 with all the lines I've tried. Fortunately I don't have to face it very often. Mostly my opponents play ...g5 lines and I get good results with Quaade-type lines.

From the black point of view, the wide range of white options and different middlegame themes after 3...Nf6 might explain why this is not more popular, despite it having been recommended recently in some black repertoires.
  
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Patzel
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #3 - 05/13/20 at 14:36:33
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5.d4 is better than 5.Be2 and leads to entertaining positions.
The other idea is to play 4.Nc3 instead of 4.e5, which most likely transposes to the Modern Defence after 4...d5.

I published a video course on the King´s Gambit in German last month. Even if you don´t understand the videos, you´ll find a lot of new analysis, if you are a King´s Gambit fan   Smiley
Just take a look at chessemy!
« Last Edit: 05/13/20 at 17:14:14 by Patzel »  
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #2 - 05/11/20 at 02:16:54
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John Shaw gives 5.Be2 as White’s best.
  
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Re: The Schallop Defence
Reply #1 - 05/11/20 at 00:12:29
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I'm far from a King's Gambit expert but I do face it every once in a while. 3...Nf6 has for a while seemed to be like a very good attempt to get an advantage with Black, without that much "theory", but at the same time it feels unnatural to play with your Knight half-stuck on h5, almost moreso than having played ...g5. The last time I faced the KG in a tournament game (about 2 and half years ago), I went 2...d5 3 exd5 exf4, which still feels to me like a good way to get an equal game that's not especially unnatural-feeling (although this is subjective obviously). I also think 2...Bc5 is a bit underrated, but this is off topic  Smiley
  
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