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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) My new repertour vs Sicilian (Read 1248 times)
bragesjo
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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #15 - 06/14/20 at 13:58:14
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I like to add that in lines with the Queen at e3 I often play some sort of early pawn to h3 to rule out Ng4 manouvers.
  
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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #14 - 06/12/20 at 18:10:12
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bragesjo wrote on 06/11/20 at 07:15:06:
About kill the game line I can post it here. The line starts after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Qe3 g6 6.c4 Bg7 7.Nc3 Qb6. I met it in corr chess and I followed the base and analysing with the computer I found several improvment for black over the base recommendation some moves later in so I played a slight diversion some move later in to maintain an equal position.  The base more or less gave one single long line claiming += but black had better moves a long the way at several points. It maybee not kills the game in over the board chess since some moves are difficuly to find but it kills it in corr chess. The early Nf6 line have I actaully met in several online games and I play Be2 Nc6 Qe3 system there since the line above is ruled out. I also play a Qe3 setup vs a6.


I wasn't aware of that line but I'm not surprised that it exists. I also find it unpleasant to play a line if I know there is some refutation or drawing line, even if it's unlikely that my opponent will know or find it. I remember that there was some line in the same opening with ...Nh6 and an early ...f5 that I didn't enjoy playing against. Your move order seems optimal to me! I look forward to reading more about your experiences with this repertoire in the future.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #13 - 06/11/20 at 07:15:06
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BadDays wrote on 06/11/20 at 05:56:35:
bragesjo wrote on 05/15/20 at 18:02:41:
Yes I use Modern Chess bases as base for the repertouar but I have made some changes and I dont agree on every line. I for example play d4 in a e6 g3 system lines in one position where the e6 g3 base went for d3 and KIA, One author made a 3 bases for white, One Nc6 Bb5, one e6 g3 and one d6 Bb5+. However I use an other base by a differnet author about d6 with Qxd4 system but not the main recommendation after Nc6 where the base main was Qe3 but missed a move where black kills the game but I use the backup line it gave BB5 Bd5 Qd3. It alos covered alternative to Nc6. It also effects my line of choiche vs Nc6 Bb5 d6 where I play d4.


I messed around with an anti-sicilian repertoire for a while, but eventually, I decided that the opens are more exciting (mostly).

I looked at that database but was also unhappy with a couple of lines if I remember correctly, so I also tried that 5.Bb5 Bd7 6.Qd3 line a few times with decent results. It recently occurred to me that black can go 4.Qxd4 Nf6 which seemed likely to transpose to 4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Qe3. I'm not sure in which line black can "kill the game" but you should be aware of that possible transposition.

As an aside, 2...Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.d4!? is a clever shortcut, but my impression is that the mainline after 3...d6 4.0-0 is quite suspicious for black anyway.

You mentioned that you play 2...g6 with black so I'm sure that you're familiar with 3.c3, but that line always seemed like an annoying option to me.

I'm curious if you're enjoying 2...e6 3.g3. I messed around with both that line and 2.c3 with a later g3 (instead of d4) but wasn't too impressed. I do like that line with ...Qe7 Kf1! as played by Aronian(?) simply for the style points.


Thanks for your comments and input. I agree that open can lead to more exciting chess but most of my games in e6 g3 has lead to either a good version of g3 Taimanov where several of blacks more active setups are ruled out. Or else they played a line with d5 where I played exd5 followed by d4 where I think white has the more easy to handle position. I have also met some sort of transposing to h5 line in g3 Taimanov when playing online vs titled players but I realy like to met it.

About kill the game line I can post it here. The line starts after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Qe3 g6 6.c4 Bg7 7.Nc3 Qb6. I met it in corr chess and I followed the base and analysing with the computer I found several improvment for black over the base recommendation some moves later in so I played a slight diversion some move later in to maintain an equal position.  The base more or less gave one single long line claiming += but black had better moves a long the way at several points. It maybee not kills the game in over the board chess since some moves are difficuly to find but it kills it in corr chess. The early Nf6 line have I actaully met in several online games and I play Be2 Nc6 Qe3 system there since the line above is ruled out. I also play a Qe3 setup vs a6.
  
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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #12 - 06/11/20 at 05:56:35
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bragesjo wrote on 05/15/20 at 18:02:41:
Yes I use Modern Chess bases as base for the repertouar but I have made some changes and I dont agree on every line. I for example play d4 in a e6 g3 system lines in one position where the e6 g3 base went for d3 and KIA, One author made a 3 bases for white, One Nc6 Bb5, one e6 g3 and one d6 Bb5+. However I use an other base by a differnet author about d6 with Qxd4 system but not the main recommendation after Nc6 where the base main was Qe3 but missed a move where black kills the game but I use the backup line it gave BB5 Bd5 Qd3. It alos covered alternative to Nc6. It also effects my line of choiche vs Nc6 Bb5 d6 where I play d4.


I messed around with an anti-sicilian repertoire for a while, but eventually, I decided that the opens are more exciting (mostly).

I looked at that database but was also unhappy with a couple of lines if I remember correctly, so I also tried that 5.Bb5 Bd7 6.Qd3 line a few times with decent results. It recently occurred to me that black can go 4.Qxd4 Nf6 which seemed likely to transpose to 4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Qe3. I'm not sure in which line black can "kill the game" but you should be aware of that possible transposition.

As an aside, 2...Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.d4!? is a clever shortcut, but my impression is that the mainline after 3...d6 4.0-0 is quite suspicious for black anyway.

You mentioned that you play 2...g6 with black so I'm sure that you're familiar with 3.c3, but that line always seemed like an annoying option to me.

I'm curious if you're enjoying 2...e6 3.g3. I messed around with both that line and 2.c3 with a later g3 (instead of d4) but wasn't too impressed. I do like that line with ...Qe7 Kf1! as played by Aronian(?) simply for the style points.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #11 - 06/10/20 at 19:47:59
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I took a while but my results are getting better and better with my new lines, Now I suddenly has started to win or draw titles player in swedish onlien divisions regulary in these new lines. The hardest line master in my repertouarr are the Nc6 Bb5 lines. Its not enough to learn theory one must also have pratical experince to grasp move orders and how to play in several sharper line when playing vs good players.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #10 - 05/17/20 at 20:40:27
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I have taken a look now. The Modern Chess anit e6  and  side lines base, while reommanding d4 also looked at c4 mover order. The author writes that Qa5 is black most tricky option. The critical lines looks after Qa5 looks like Nc3 d6 and now a pawn sacrice with d5 where I realy prefer white.

Black alternativs looks like a standard position with a black queen at a5 early.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #9 - 05/17/20 at 19:48:55
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semper_fidelis wrote on 05/17/20 at 10:29:54:
bragesjo wrote on 05/14/20 at 10:54:20:
Any thoughts?


I found it quite intriguing that Shaw in his book recommends 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4, with the comment that it is very difficult to get any advantage after 3.c4 Bg7 4.d4 Qa5. Panjwani also made a similar note in his book, if I remember correctly. Apparently it is not such a simple transposition.


Thanks for the warning. I never searly considred it. My idea was to acoid Dragon prober that Imet in a few games with g6  move order. Now I realy nead to rethink a bit and analyse Qa5 for my self.
  
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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #8 - 05/17/20 at 10:29:54
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bragesjo wrote on 05/14/20 at 10:54:20:
Any thoughts?


I found it quite intriguing that Shaw in his book recommends 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4, with the comment that it is very difficult to get any advantage after 3.c4 Bg7 4.d4 Qa5. Panjwani also made a similar note in his book, if I remember correctly. Apparently it is not such a simple transposition.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #7 - 05/15/20 at 18:30:54
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I have tried the lines in a few online blitz games and I has had mixed results, some wins some draws and some loses vs hiegher rated player.

A funny part was in my clubs online blitz arena  championship vs a local FM.  I won the first time we played I won after 2.. e6 3 g3. When we met again I won in 2 .. d6 with Qxd4 system and the third time we met (must be a bug a Lichess since I met him 3 times with the same side and some others not even once) he played 1 .. e5 instead and he won.

I can also conslude that in 2 .. Nc6 3 Bb5 blacks most common moves appers to be either g6 or d6. After that e6 and Nf6 are equal popular and I met Qb6 a few times.
  
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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #6 - 05/15/20 at 18:22:47
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About Dragon black is fine but has  zero winning chanses in some lines, Vs Bc4 yugoslav Topalosv Rc8 + Nxd4 0 b5 system is ok for black. Both Negis book and computers likes a line for white where white has an extra pawn but is impossilbe to improve the position, I got an easy draw as black in a thematial corr event. Also if white plays eary Bb3 the Parma variation (Nxd4 + b5 before Rc8) Negis book missed an improvment for black where black sacrifces a pawn for long term positional compensation. I look at it with a friend and we concluded that white has no play at all.

In the line with 9 000 d5 Qe1 in the trendy Kb1 lline a5 more or less forced draw after a pawn sacrrifce. Shaws book mention in and therefore went for the old main Ne4 instead. However when I looked at it with a friend we concluded that Shaws line gives white an optical advantage but we looked at if for hours and did no see how any side could win.

About Najdorf I have played g3 system several years ago I dont know how theory has changed since but it alwayes felt eqal in both e5 and e6 systems.
« Last Edit: 05/16/20 at 08:16:08 by bragesjo »  
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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #5 - 05/15/20 at 18:07:25
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MNb wrote on 05/14/20 at 17:14:33:
bragesjo wrote on 05/14/20 at 10:54:20:
Any thoughts?

Maintaining a repertoire after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 will require a lot of work as well. Do you think that worth the effort?
If not you may consider 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 because after 3...e6 you'll enter your fianchetto lines again with 4.d4. Instead 3...Nf6 (or 3...g6 4.Bb5) 4.Bb5 g6 (d6 5.e5!?) 5.Bxc6 is probably what you want with 3.Bb5. And 3...d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 e5 6.Nde2 is an effective Anti-Sveshnikov, once again with a kingside fianchetto.
There is probably some snag somewhere (perhaps you don't like 3...e5) as I haven't systemetically checked all transpositions.

MNb wrote on 05/14/20 at 17:14:33:
bragesjo wrote on 05/14/20 at 10:54:20:
Any thoughts?

Maintaining a repertoire after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 will require a lot of work as well. Do you think that worth the effort?
If not you may consider 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 because after 3...e6 you'll enter your fianchetto lines again with 4.d4. Instead 3...Nf6 (or 3...g6 4.Bb5) 4.Bb5 g6 (d6 5.e5!?) 5.Bxc6 is probably what you want with 3.Bb5. And 3...d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 e5 6.Nde2 is an effective Anti-Sveshnikov, once again with a kingside fianchetto.
There is probably some snag somewhere (perhaps you don't like 3...e5) as I haven't systemetically checked all transpositions.


Yes its more work than for example my anti 2 .. d6 lines combined with my anit e6 lines but more mangable than every Open Sicilian than can arrive after 2 .. Nc6 like Svechnikov and Kalashnikov. Some lines like Classical or several irregular lines are rare to met so I never learn the correct move orders.
  
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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #4 - 05/15/20 at 18:02:41
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Stigma wrote on 05/14/20 at 11:35:48:
That looks like a modern chess repertoire to me.  Wink

Go for it!


Yes I use Modern Chess bases as base for the repertouar but I have made some changes and I dont agree on every line. I for example play d4 in a e6 g3 system lines in one position where the e6 g3 base went for d3 and KIA, One author made a 3 bases for white, One Nc6 Bb5, one e6 g3 and one d6 Bb5+. However I use an other base by a differnet author about d6 with Qxd4 system but not the main recommendation after Nc6 where the base main was Qe3 but missed a move where black kills the game but I use the backup line it gave BB5 Bd5 Qd3. It alos covered alternative to Nc6. It also effects my line of choiche vs Nc6 Bb5 d6 where I play d4.
  
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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #3 - 05/14/20 at 17:14:33
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bragesjo wrote on 05/14/20 at 10:54:20:
Any thoughts?

Maintaining a repertoire after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 will require a lot of work as well. Do you think that worth the effort?
If not you may consider 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 because after 3...e6 you'll enter your fianchetto lines again with 4.d4. Instead 3...Nf6 (or 3...g6 4.Bb5) 4.Bb5 g6 (d6 5.e5!?) 5.Bxc6 is probably what you want with 3.Bb5. And 3...d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 e5 6.Nde2 is an effective Anti-Sveshnikov, once again with a kingside fianchetto.
There is probably some snag somewhere (perhaps you don't like 3...e5) as I haven't systemetically checked all transpositions.
  

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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #2 - 05/14/20 at 13:33:18
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hi bragesjo,

how about a summary about your experiences in the open Sicilian, as I wanna give it a try with White:)

I played all major Sicilians and get the impression, that all systems are under pressure.
- Taimanov with 5. ...Qc7, 6.g3!
- Taimanov with 5. ...a6, 6. Nxc6
- Dragon, 9.000, still hard to handle, 9.Bc4 + Kb1
- Sweshnikov, 7. Nd5 stuff, Magnus is winning, because he's Magnus, but I dont understand at all, what's going on; 7. Bg5 + c4 stuff, very hard to win
- Kan, Magnus setup with c4 and Qd3,
- Najdorf, 6.g3 and Black has to know his stuff, in my games I suffer regularly, maybe in correspondence games it's easier to handle, I dont know.

So my hint, stick to the open Sicilian and check some brilliancies with White by young indian prodigies (chessbase India) to regain your confidence.
  

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Re: My new repertour vs Sicilian
Reply #1 - 05/14/20 at 11:35:48
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That looks like a modern chess repertoire to me.  Wink

Go for it!
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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