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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Report from accelerated Dragon event (Read 1969 times)
XChess1971
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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #21 - 07/17/20 at 17:57:36
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bragesjo wrote on 07/17/20 at 15:33:11:
Not relaterad to this thread but even Marocy can lead to opposete side castling.
Shaw has more than one line in hes white repertour book where white castles queenside.

I won a rated corr game today as white  where opponent diverted from Shaws lines but I followed hes concept and got a strong attack.


If it is the same tournament I wonder why it would not be related to that. But anyway. I have seen somebody playing long castle with white in the Maroczy against me. It was a couple of bullet games. I do not remember the whole thing. But it looked to me that it was kind of hard to crack and surprising as well. Keep in mind that there is a lot of revolution in the openings. Just to mention that not long ago Praggnanandhaa castled long with black in a KID Makogonov. Also I read somewhere that in the Exchange Variation of the QGD-Bg5 black would castle long. No surprise to see that kind of concept in other positions even with different color.
« Last Edit: 07/17/20 at 19:33:39 by XChess1971 »  
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bragesjo
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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #20 - 07/17/20 at 15:33:11
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Not relaterad to this thread but even Marocy can lead to opposete side castling.
Shaw has more than one line in hes white repertour book where white castles queenside.

I won a rated corr game today as white  where opponent diverted from Shaws lines but I followed hes concept and got a strong attack.
  
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XChess1971
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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #19 - 07/17/20 at 09:06:40
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MNb wrote on 07/17/20 at 05:03:08:
XChess1971 wrote on 07/16/20 at 22:44:21:
And if you wanna answer 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 with 3...g6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 with 5...Bg7 you had to keep in mind what are you going to play if 3.d4 arises. Otherwise you'll have to stick to the Kalashnikov.

How brillliant of you! I only realized this  a quarter of a century ago. Let me tell you a little secret I have revealed only a dozen times thus far on this very forum. I prefer the Kalashnikov to allowing the Maroczy.


XChess1971 wrote on 07/16/20 at 22:44:21:
I forgot to mention that 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Bf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.O-O-O

Which still cannot arise via the Accelerated Dragon, so you still are not even wrong.

XChess1971 wrote on 07/16/20 at 22:44:21:
Those who prefer the Accelerated Dragon are not real Dragon players.<-------- I never said that!

And I never claimed you did.

XChess1971 wrote on 07/16/20 at 22:44:21:
When I said 'Real Dragon Players" I meant that by knowledge and experience you become one of them.

Thanks for confirming that your comments are irrelevant in this thread. This is the point, silly. Those who play the Accelerated Dragon don't have any ambition to "become one of them". Or they would start playing 2...d6.

[moderator hat on] Your next comment in this thread about the Accelerated Dragon, please. [moderator hat off]


I do not think I am brilliant. But you have to realize that others read this, even newcomers. So they get the answer one more time. You figured it out 25 years ago which is excellent. But there are guys that they DO NOT want to play Kalashnikov at all. So they might have to take it into Maroczy.

Well whether they wanna play a proper Dragon or not I guess is a matter of choice. People play in different ways. If you don't want to play a proper Dragon is one thing. But sometimes there are Dragon players that take 2...Nc6 or 2..g6 trying to avoid certain lines. Also some players like Tiviakov play both the Accelerated and the Proper Dragon. In the end is a matter of taste what and which way you wanna play. Or you do not agree on that?
  
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MNb
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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #18 - 07/17/20 at 05:03:08
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XChess1971 wrote on 07/16/20 at 22:44:21:
And if you wanna answer 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 with 3...g6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 with 5...Bg7 you had to keep in mind what are you going to play if 3.d4 arises. Otherwise you'll have to stick to the Kalashnikov.

How brillliant of you! I only realized this  a quarter of a century ago. Let me tell you a little secret I have revealed only a dozen times thus far on this very forum. I prefer the Kalashnikov to allowing the Maroczy.


XChess1971 wrote on 07/16/20 at 22:44:21:
I forgot to mention that 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Bf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.O-O-O

Which still cannot arise via the Accelerated Dragon, so you still are not even wrong.

XChess1971 wrote on 07/16/20 at 22:44:21:
Those who prefer the Accelerated Dragon are not real Dragon players.<-------- I never said that!

And I never claimed you did.

XChess1971 wrote on 07/16/20 at 22:44:21:
When I said 'Real Dragon Players" I meant that by knowledge and experience you become one of them.

Thanks for confirming that your comments are irrelevant in this thread. This is the point, silly. Those who play the Accelerated Dragon don't have any ambition to "become one of them". Or they would start playing 2...d6.

[moderator hat on] Your next comment in this thread about the Accelerated Dragon, please. [moderator hat off]
  

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XChess1971
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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #17 - 07/16/20 at 22:44:21
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MNb wrote on 07/16/20 at 14:26:38:
XChess1971 wrote on 07/16/20 at 12:29:10:
But a real Dragon player knows what is best!



Those who prefer the Accelerated Dragon are not real Dragon players.<-------- I never said that! When I said 'Real Dragon Players" I meant that by knowledge and experience you become one of them. I myself played and play the Accelerated and Hyper Accelerated as well.
The knowledge is not based only the basics of an opening it goes further than that.
I'll give an example 1.g3 e5 2.Bg2 d5 3.c4 Nf6 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.Nc3 Nb6 6.d3 Nc6 7.Bxc6 bxc6 isn't this an Accelerated Dragon with Reversed colors?
Those are tactical and strategical motifs part of an opening system. My comment intended no offense. And those are played in the Accelerated. And I am pretty sure that you know of Kalashnikov much more than me! So you are a real Kalashnikov player!


XChess1971 wrote on 07/16/20 at 12:29:10:
10.h4 is simply replied by 10...h5. On 10.Bb3 black can play either 10...Nxd4 or 10...Rc8.

And thus your answer doesn't make any sense.<-----------------I guess I answered that with............

I forgot to mention that 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Bf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.0-0-0 Rc8 11.Bb3 Ne5 12.h4 instead of playing 12...h5 previously was played 12...Nc4. So in case of 10.h4 I am not sure how the 12...Nc4 players would handle it at that point. I have only played Soltis in my life so I never worried about it. But if I ever reached the position with 10.0-0-0 Rc8 11.Bb3 Ne5 12.h4 I remember I had the option of going into 12....Nc4. So if somebody played me 10.h4 I was never worried because I would answer 10...h5.
In case of 10.h4 black will go 10...h5 11.0-0-0 Rc8 12.Bb3 Ne5 or 11.Bb3 Rc8 12.0-0-0 Ne5.



With the point that White has been forced to play Bb3 at an early stage. True Dragon players can't be bothered; those who play the Accelerated Dragon are more ambitious. They know better than allowing 10.Qd2 (iso 10.h4) Rc8?!  (Nxd4! Parma and Forintos) 11.O-O-O Ne5 12.Kb1. Because that's an important point of playing 2...Nc6.<----------------Those who play the Accelerated will have to deal with the Maroczy. So be prepared! Also on your last paragraph  10...Rc8 is not dubious after 11.0-0-0 black still can enter the Topalov with 11...Nxd4.

And if you wanna answer 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 with 3...g6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 with 5...Bg7 you had to keep in mind what are you going to play if 3.d4 arises. Otherwise you'll have to stick to the Kalashnikov.



.

« Last Edit: 07/17/20 at 00:46:48 by XChess1971 »  
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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #16 - 07/16/20 at 22:25:04
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I forgot to mention that 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Bf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.0-0-0 Rc8 11.Bb3 Ne5 12.h4 instead of playing 12...h5 previously was played 12...Nc4. So in case of 10.h4 I am not sure how the 12...Nc4 players would handle it at that point. I have only played Soltis in my life so I never worried about it. But if I ever reached the position with 10.0-0-0 Rc8 11.Bb3 Ne5 12.h4 I remember I had the option of going into 12....Nc4. So if somebody played me 10.h4 I was never worried because I would answer 10...h5.
In case of 10.h4 black will go 10...h5 11.0-0-0 Rc8 12.Bb3 Ne5 or 11.Bb3 Rc8 12.0-0-0 Ne5.
  
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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #15 - 07/16/20 at 14:26:38
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XChess1971 wrote on 07/16/20 at 12:29:10:
But a real Dragon player knows what is best!

Those who prefer the Accelerated Dragon are not real Dragon players.


XChess1971 wrote on 07/16/20 at 12:29:10:
10.h4 is simply replied by 10...h5. On 10.Bb3 black can play either 10...Nxd4 or 10...Rc8.

And thus your answer doesn't make any sense.



With the point that White has been forced to play Bb3 at an early stage. True Dragon players can't be bothered; those who play the Accelerated Dragon are more ambitious. They know better than allowing 10.Qd2 (iso 10.h4) Rc8?!  (Nxd4! Parma and Forintos) 11.O-O-O Ne5 12.Kb1. Because that's an important point of playing 2...Nc6.



.
  

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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #14 - 07/16/20 at 13:32:25
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bragesjo wrote on 07/16/20 at 09:31:21:
I dont have access to a Fritz right now to enter the moves correctly

winboard for the win! Ctrl+C = Copy Game to Clipboard. The most important use for me is when I don't have rights to install software. Download a zipped .exe and double-click to run. Or keep it on usb if that's not disabled.
http://www.open-aurec.com/wbforum/viewtopic.php?t=51528
  
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XChess1971
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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #13 - 07/16/20 at 12:29:10
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MNb wrote on 07/16/20 at 10:38:49:
bragesjo wrote on 07/16/20 at 09:31:21:
Negi also goes covers early h4 before 0-0-0 but conclued that the position is equal.

That makes me curious as I found this harder to meet for Black than O-O-O first.
But I can wait until tomorrow.  Wink


10.h4 is simply replied by 10...h5. On 10.Bb3 black can play either 10...Nxd4 or 10...Rc8. If I am not wrong 13 years ago I drew a game in corr. after I played 10...Na5 after transpositions (I am not sure if I would repeat today). On 10.0-0-0 Rc8 should be fine unless you wanna try 10...Rb8.

At the beginning of the 90s it was thought that 10.h4 was dangerous. But a real Dragon player knows what is best!
  
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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #12 - 07/16/20 at 10:38:49
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bragesjo wrote on 07/16/20 at 09:31:21:
Negi also goes covers early h4 before 0-0-0 but conclued that the position is equal.

That makes me curious as I found this harder to meet for Black than O-O-O first.
But I can wait until tomorrow.  Wink
  

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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #11 - 07/16/20 at 09:31:21
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mxstoe wrote on 07/15/20 at 23:47:41:
brasjego, what are the Weaknesses in Negis Book?


Negis weaknesses are not forced loses only that black equalices completly. I dont have access to a Fritz right now to enter the moves correctly as pgn. I will post it here tommorow so we have something to discuss.

The summary are in the line  I know as parma variation where Negi missed an major improvment,
The other line are the line I call Toplaov systems, Negi and engines claim a slight edge but after a novelty is impossible to improve the position.
Negi also goes covers early h4 before 0-0-0 but conclued that the position is equal.

If you want the information before tommorow Dismantling the Sicilian has the lines menton in the section "What others recommend and why I disagree".

EDIT

I assumed that brasjego is s typo. Bragesjo mean the Lake of Bragi. Bragi =  Brage in swedish who was a viking god of scaldic and poety. Sjö = lake.


EDIT 2
More games are being completed and it already clear that I will get at least 2nd place but if 2 players draw I will get shared 1st place.
  
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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #10 - 07/15/20 at 23:47:41
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bragesjo, what are the Weaknesses in Negis Book?

(typo fixed - moderator)
« Last Edit: 07/16/20 at 10:37:43 by MNb »  
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XChess1971
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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #9 - 07/12/20 at 15:44:29
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MNb wrote on 05/18/20 at 07:33:01:
1. What do you mean with the Parma Variation?
2. Have you given up on the ...e6 Sicilian, except perhaps in corr. chess (btw I can't remember whether you played the Kan, the Paulsen or the Taimanov)?
3. Have you considered replacing the Maroczy Bind with the Kalashnikov or do you prefer to avoid 3.Bb5?
4. Which line do you think most promising against the Maroczy Bind?

Thanks in advance.


Playing just one opening shortens your knowledge of positions. Unfortunately it is the way it is. Many many years ago I was playing the Najdorf. But it was The Dragon that really became my main defense against 1.e4. And it has always been like that. With wins, draws and loses whether it was blitz or tournament games. I combined it with the King's Indian Defense, Some Indo Benoni and even Benko structures. There has been a short time when I played Some Tartakower of the QGD. Also Semi-Slav Systems. But the KID has always been my main Defense as well as the Dragon. There was a time when I have tried 1.e4 e5 with black. I knew what to play. But I am a Sicilian player anyway. Always I came back to that. In some correspondence I have played Najdorf and Dragon. It has been a little while because I stopped playing it. Also for sometime I combined KID with Gruenfeld. Opening theory has developed so much that what it was good yesterday might not be good today. I found a lot of "nonsense chess" that today is played. Systems in which someone plays g4 or h4 or g5 or h5. So basically I had to learn how to counterpunch clowns that think that they are going to kill you right from move one.
I myself have spent hundreds of hours analyzing many Anti-Sicilians and critical lines of the Dragon. I am not finished. And I am still working on them. But trust me if I tell you that there is no better antidote that your own work. Especially when you play something that NOBODY recommends. I have pulled way too many people out of their books and crushed them with secondary lines. Especially in Anti Sicilians. Just to say I have put out of business The Morra, the Alapin, the Wing Gambit, and so on. I do not trust no GM course 100%. I have seen that GMs suggest you to play different things. But there is no deep analysis of those positions.
Honestly it is better to know well one defensive system against 1.e4 and another one against 1.d4. In case of the Dragon you have to know how to properly play it. Memory has a big role.
Also when you play positions you have to know the structures derived from them and see if you feel comfortable. Sometimes you have to do hard work in order to find the inner truth of them. Many get disappointed when they end up crushed. But it is because they didn't work hard enough to know the depths of those systems.
When Bragesjo mentions Negi's Books is because he finds tricks that favor black, But obviously one is not going to trust the books blindfolded. I myself don't. I have found many errors and bad advices. It's been said that because someone is a GM and writes a book " everybody has to believe it".
Also I forgot to mention there has been a time when I played French with mixed results. The same thing with the Budapest Gambit. But throughout my life. The KID and the Dragon have always been my main weapons. And I still work on them for improvements.

Also I uploaded a small gift from me.
« Last Edit: 07/12/20 at 17:15:57 by XChess1971 »  

Dragon_-_ACM.pgn ( 0 KB | 45 Downloads )
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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #8 - 05/19/20 at 09:18:10
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Piotr Nyugen recommends 10...Nxd4 against both 10 Qd2 and 10 h4 in his Chessable course. I remember it looked interesting but risky, although it didn't seem like there was anything clear for White so long as Black is very careful.

Personally, I don't trust the Maroczy line with ...Ng4 and a later ...e5, although it's definitely interesting. I think the Gurgenidze is by far Black's most circumspect option, but obviously that wasn't available with the theme tournament's move order.
  
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Re: Report from accelerated Dragon event
Reply #7 - 05/19/20 at 07:04:00
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bragesjo wrote on 05/18/20 at 18:39:37:
10 h4 is I line I never met even the Dragon prober days.



Slight correction, I actually met 10 h4 without noticing it in the thematial event and I played h5 and white played a later Nxc6 after I played Rc8 and the game became a draw later.
  
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